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Re: Canadian Licensing Question



tourman wrote:
> On Dec 26, 5:55 pm, Frank Olson
> <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Bob Worthy wrote:
>>> "tourman" <robercampb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:ece5def1-56bf-42f2-8ff0-82286cd1a612@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> On Dec 22, 6:49 pm, Frank Olson
>>> <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Bob Worthy wrote:
>>>>> Is there any licensing, at all, required for the Mississauga, Ontario
>>>>> area?
>>>>> I believe the alarm licensing in Canada refers to Alarm Agents. I read a
>>>>> contract that said "N/A" where the license number was to be inserted on
>>>>> the
>>>>> contract. Good to go or are they missing something?
>>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>> There's no licensing requirements in Ontario at the moment
>>>> (not-with-standing the business license required by most
>>>> municipalities). They've been talking about it for a while. Some
>>>> jurisdictions (in Canada) require the tech have several CFAA
>>>> (http://www.cfaa.ca) courses (and be a paid up member) before he can
>>>> touch a fire alarm system though, but so far only Ontario, Manitoba and
>>>> Alberta have adopted this (to my knowledge).
>>> RHC: Yup, Ontario is the "wild west" of alarm sales and
>>> installations ! After all these years, I kinda like it that way
>>> (although a strong case can be made for licensing I know). But usually
>>> that just leads to the creation of some sort of self serving
>>> regulatory body with little or no knowledge of our business,
>>> intruding into our business activities for only two
>>> reasons...."control" (that's definately the Canadian way), and
>>> licensing ("taxation of a sort"...another thing we have too much
>>> of....)
>>> For actual fire systems, yes, I can the need for regulation, but not
>>> burglary. But I'm sure the big alarm companies will support it if for
>>> no other reason than it will make it harder on all the small
>>> companies ....
>>> Thanks guys! There was a line item in the agreement that states that a
>>> license is required in some provinces so I just wanted to make sure. A
>>> client could and probably would overlook the requirement if someone simply
>>> put a "N/A" in that space. At least my client is savy enough to not only
>>> have their attorneys look at it but a third party from the industry as well.
>>> Looks like they are good to go. Unfortunately, they are assuming this
>>> agreement through an acquisition. I am not particularly fond of the security
>>> company but that's life. There is too much left on the agreement to just
>>> dump it with a pay off.
>> Not sure why they would be required to "pay off" the balance of the
>> contract if they're taking over the building.  Find some local guy (like
>> RHC), rip out the old stuff (from the company you're not "particularly
>> fond of"), and install all new equipment with an agreement that doesn't
>> "lock in" the client for an extended time.
>
> RHC: Frank, this total lack of licensing here in Ontario is really a
> bad thing. I have been a locksmith for 35 years totally without any
> sort of license whatsoever other than a normal business license. Just
> about anywhere in the world you go, there is at least a background
> check on a person who wishes to practice this craft.  Alarm
> installation is just as bad. The only requirement for alarm
> installation in Ontario is that you are a primate with an opposing
> thumb. True fire systems I know nothing about; however, it doesn't
> surprise me to hear they are not regulated either.

Fire is regulated in many cities in Ontario.  Visit the CFAA website to
get the scoop.  The only thing I don't agree with is the fact that you
have to PAY to get the forms to perform an annual inspection.  As far as
I'm concerned any form that follows CAN/ULC-S536 (Inspection Standard)
should be OK to use.


>
> As Canadians, we seem to have everything in our society regulated far
> beyond any real need. Regulations seem to be something we here in
> Canada are comfortable with (far more so than our American friends),
> so it amazes me that government agencies haven't stepped in here where
> some measure of regulation could actually prove useful (as opposed to
> a lot of Canadian government regulatory activities which are only self
> serving and an excuse for additional taxation).
>
> Sometimes I really have to wonder.......

BC is regulated to the "nth" degree (where it comes to locksmithing and
burglar alarm installations/service).  In most provinces, you have to be
a licensed electrical contractor to install a fire alarm system.  This
does not mean that your fire alarm system will be installed properly.
I've done a number of verification/commissionings where it's obvious
that neither the contractor or the designing electrical engineer knew
the installation standard (CAN/ULC-S524).  Then it's a "fight" to see
whether the contractor can get an "extra" for all the stuff the engineer
missed.  Sadly it's the contractor that has to "swallow" the mistakes.


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