Re: How to replace battery

["Robert L Bass" <robertbass1@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>> Oh REALLY? Ever change a battery
>>> on an old DSC Classic Panel?...
>>
>> Nope.  Then again, I never installed
>> an old DSC "Classic" panel.
>
> Figures.

Indeed.  I never liked that kind of cheap crap.

> So then do you get your 'customers' to
> check and adjust the charging voltage?
> It may not require any special skill, but
> it certainly requires knowledge and
> experience.

I've instructed a few people to do it.  It's about the simplest procedure there is, requiring neither skill, knowledge no
experience.  However, if you find it challenging I can understand your concern.

>>> DSC's charging circuit can be varied
>>> in voltage from approximately 12.5 to
>>> 14+ volts. Should be at 13.8, but over
>>> time it will wander.  I've seen over 14
>>> volts and as low as 13. If the voltage
>>> is high, the battery life will be less,
>>> significantly less...
>>
>> I usually ask clients who call about
>> replacement batteries how long it's
>> been since the old one was installed.
>> If it's been less than 4 years or so,
>> I ask if there's been an extended
>> power outage.  Most of the time they
>> say the battery was installed by the
>>"professional" installer and has never
>> been replaced since.  Many times
>> the client says that the system -- and
>> the battery -- have been there for 8,
>> 10 or more years.
>
> So you have the cheap, lazy clients
> who won't change their battery as
> required...

Actually, these are usually clients who relied for years on their professional installing dealer to maintain the system before
dropping the monitoring contract for whatever reason.  The low battery warning is often the first indication that the system had not
been properly serviced, sometimes for years.

> An eight year old battery is of little
> use...

So is an alarm company that doesn't bother to replace a battery for six or eight years until the client finally drops their service.

> It's doubtful that a customer like that
> would produce any tangible profit
> UNLESS they're charged FULL PRICE
> for the battery and the service call...

I'm not surprised that you think that.  Fortunately for me, there are lots of end users who get fed up with that kind if trewatment
(not to mention that kind of attitude) and go searching the Internet for a new supplier.  Just as Bob Campbell has made a good
living for years taking over accounts from one particular, well-known alarm company whose services are notoriously bad, I make a
nice living helping the people guys like you used to abuse.

> AND any alarm panel that is that old
> and unmaintained NEEDS an
> EXPERINCED ALARM TECH to
> properly service the system...

These are usually ex-clients of "experienced" alarm techs who have ignored routine service requirements so long that only a good
DIYer can save the day.  Most of the time when we get a DIYer who has taken over service after a "professional" alarm installer did
the initial job, it's because the "professional" dealer either screwed up the installation, failed to service it in a timely manner,
charged rip-off prices, failed to respond promptly to alarms or some combination of the above.

BTW, I'm not saying that all or even most alarm dealers do such bad work.  I like to believe that this newsgroup is not
representative of the industry at large -- that most are actually intelligent, caring people rather than liars and frauds like
Olson, Cracker and the Matawan Moron (aka "Group Nutcase") or rip-off artists like a certain ECLA member, his Worthless pal and
Jiminex.  I suspect most are more like Bob Campbell, Jim Rojas or (and this is one I only recently realized has a heart) Tom "Tank
Top" Fowler.

> I would never monitor an alarm
> system that is that badly maintained.

Well then, we finally found something in common.  :^)

>>> Reason #2?
>>>
>>> MOST clients are idiots and will not
>>> be able to do it or will do something
>>> wrong.
>>
>> If that is the measure of the typical
>> person who hires you, I can understand
>> your concern.  If this newsgroup is any
>> indication of things in general, I'd say
>> the *avarage* DIYer is smarter than
>> the *average* professional installer.
>
> I don't pick my customers based on their
> IQ, only their ability to afford my services...

So you say your customers are stupid but at least they have enough money to buy what you sell?  OK.

> The average DIYer may be smarter than
> you, but certainly not smarter than any
> professional installer I've ever met...

In your dreams, Bubba.

> Then again, I've never met you..... Oh,
> right that doesn't matter - you're not a
> professional installer...

Not any more.  I ran a central station alarm company for 24 years though.  We were small so I kept a hand in installation and
service even after hiring techs.  It was a fun way to make a living but I found something more lucrative that also affords me the
freedom to travel extensively, spending several months at a time at my second home in Brazil.

> You only run an internet store.
> Nothing to do with installing or
> servicing alarms or monitoring
> Florida customers.

Yup.  However, I've spent more years installing and servicing alarms than you've been out of diapers (then again, perhaps that's not
saying much).

>> At any rate, changing out a backup
>> battery is a 2-minute affair.  That
>> includes time spent looking for the
>> key to open the cabinet.
>
> And what am I supposed to do about the
> 1/2 hour to go over the alarm use/features/coverage?
> If my client wants to have me over to
> change a battery, move a motion, program
> a code or have me over for coffee and
> cake, my hourly rate is the same...

If he wants you to do all of those things, you probably ought to bid a flat rate rather than gouge him with your hourly rate.  If
your clients are as stupid as you say they are, I guess you can keep getting away with it though.

> More time is wasted going over things
> over and over again due to the short
> term attention span of the client...

It's always the customer's fault, eh?

> Not to mention, most people's inability
> to answer a simple question with an
> answer that matches the question,
> not an answer to a question that wasn't
> asked. GOT IT?

Oh, that explains why you have so much trouble teaching them over and over and over and over again.  Perhaps if you learn to answer
their questions properly they won't have so much trouble.  Of course, if you taught them better, they might not need to call you
back for so many expensive service calls.  Hmmm.

>>>> Smokes are easy to clean.  Homeowners
>>>> can clean one in a few minutes.
>>>
>>> Sure, I LOVE to have homeowners clean
>>> their own smoke detectors! I guarantee
>>> they didn't listen to the instructions and
>>> will BLOW air into the detector instead of
>>> SUCKING THE AIR (AND DEBRIS/DUST)
>>> OUT.
>>
>> Do you always suck or do you also blow from time to time?
>>
>> OK, sorry.  That was rude.
>>
>>> I sell more smoke detectors that way.......
>>> AND I CHARGE A FRIGGIN' SERVICE
>>> CALL TOO!
>>
>> All kidding aside, I'm curious where you
>> learned to "clean" smoke detectors that
>> way.  I always open the cover and clean
>> the entire interior with a moist (not wet)
>> cloth.  Then I open the sensing chamber
>> and clean the inside with an alcohol swab.
>> I find this is much more effective than
>> using forced air.  The smokes will often
>> last much longer between cleanings.
>
> ALL clients with smoke detectors are give
> the same instructions...

Your clients give you the instructions?  I thought you said they were all stupid.

> - use the dust attachment of the vacuum
> and clean the unit every three months. No
> disassembly required. If any client was to
> do that, then the units would function for a
> longer period of time.

Unfortunately, partical matter inside the sensing chamber is never completely dislodged by such a procedure.  It will suck out big
dust "kittens" from inside the cover but it does nothing to clean the most critical part, which is the sensing chamber.

> My method is to clean the interior of
> smokes, but c'mon - who the hell
> carries alcohol swabs for cleaning the
> sensing chamber?...

I always did and my techs always did.  It's really no trouble keeping a box of swabs and a small jar of alcohol in the van.

> Another tall story I guess...

Anything you never thought of must seem so to you.

> And wouldn't cleaning smoke detectors
> require a service call to the premise?...

I think you meant premises.  One doesn't service a premise.  AT any rate, no.  It's easy to do that.  Any DIYer can handle it.
However, I notice that you weren't even aware of the need.  Did you say that you're a "professional" installer?  Hmm.

> Gee, and I thought you only ran an
> internet store..... must be the propoganda.....

You thought wrong, grasshopper.  I've been in this industry many years before there even was an Internet.

>>>> Yep.  It's also a good idea to wrap a
>>>> couple of turns of electrical tape after
>>>> clipping the terminals.
>>>
>>> 'Cause you just know a dead battery
>>> without terminals starts an electrical
>>> fire every 16 seconds in the US.......
>>
>> First of all, my inexperienced friend,
>> the battery isn't "dead" or it would not
>> be necessary to clip the terminals.
>
> I don't know if I'm more offended by you
> calling me your friend or inexperienced,
> but I can guarantee I'm neither...

The "friend" part is a sarcastic expression.  I prefer it to calling you an asshole.  As to experience, you've already shown you
don't know how to clean a smoke detector or properly dispose of a used alarm battery.  I think you've demonstrated your lack of
experience sufficiently.

>> Anyone with experience in the trade
>> instead of clerking and swapping
>> aliases all day knows that.
>
> How exactly do I clerk an alias?

You don't read very well either, do you?

> You must know, you've been an alias
> swapper for many years - on this NG and others - so you must have
> clerked a couple too. I've used two aliases here in the past eleven
> years. Yes, I've been here that long, albeit with a long absence
> between then and now

Have you been taking debating lessons from Olson?  I understand he's also offering PPSEL lessons, in between aerobatic airliner
antics.

>> Second, even with the terminals
>> clipped off, the electrodes are still
>> reachable.  In the unlikely event
>> that something metallic in the trash
>> were to come into contact with
>> them, a fire could result.  It takes
>> less than 10 seconds to wrap a
>> little tape around the battery to
>> completely prevent that.  But you
>> wouldn't know that, would you?
>
> OMG you are a MORON!...

Translation: You discovered you're wrong.

> So you want to prevent something
> that is unlikely to happen...

We sell smoke detectors to detect fires, even though they may be unlikely to occur in any given location.  It's called common sense.

> and if it did something else could
> happen...

Since that "something else" is a fire, yes.

> I have more confidence in winning
> the lottery next week to secure my
> retirement...

If what you post here is any indication of your skill as an alarm installer, perhaps that's a good investment plan.

> Just to prove you wrong, I'm going
> to take a recently changed battery,
> leave the terminals on and try to
> start a fire...

Piece of cake.  Shove a piece of wire into the small holes where the terminals used to be.  Be sure to hold onto the wire nice and
tight while you practice this experiment.  You'll have a nice reminder for the next few weeks what a stupid idea it was.  After your
hand heals from the burns enough to type, be sure and post all about your experience.

Note to everyone else: "Professional driver on closed course.  Do NOT try this trick at home."

> Or I could call the Mythbusters, but
> the only myth here is your qualifications.

You think they'd actually talk to you?

> I'll let you know what my results are.

No need.  If you do this in the vicinity of a sufficiently large quantity of gasoline I'll be able to see the glow from here.

> At first I'll use the metal only...

You're reminding me of the famous last words of a redneck: "Hey Bubba, watch this....."

> Then I'll try metal and paper. Then metal,
> paper and an accelerant, maybe alcohol
> swabs! And if that doesn't work I'll up the
> ante to gasoline.

All kidding aside, please don't.  You're too entertaining to lose and I really don't wish you any harm.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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