Re: Can an alarm with PGM outputs, and/or other outputs, be wired to an X10 sensor?

[anonymous <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello Jim,

> Look, You seem to be comparing a professionally installed system to a
> DIY X10 system. Why don't you compare a DIY wireless system to the
> potential cost of a unreliable X10 system?  Then you'd see the
> difference in cost is miniscule compared to the lack of reliability in
> the X10 system.

Apparently we still disagree about "the lack of reliability in the X10
system." I accept on your word that you have years of experience in the
industry. I also accept that a friend of mine who has used X10, who had
to do some troubleshooting of it, was quite pleased with it. I accept
(reasonably, I think) the various accounts I've read online of people
who had significant realiability problems, such as you mention, who
sorted them all out, and were pleased to continue using it, some of whom
also claim to be highly qualified.

On your other point above, my comparing X10 to other DIY systems, if I
knew of other similarly inexpensive DIY systems that offered the same
features as X10, including integration with both home automation and my
computer webcam system, I would of course look very seriously into it.
Tell me the name of the system, and I'll be happy to learn about it. Or
if there is no other system with those features, let someone put it
together. I would be happy, as I have made clear, to do without the
issues of X10 systems. In my case, time for a change in approach is
quickly running out, because I ordered an X10 system, it has arrived,
and it will soon have to be time to install it; but if I suddenly learn
that I can have the same functionality with a less problematic system
for the same money, I can still return my stuff to X10.


>>If my TV makes electrical
>>noise on the house wiring, I can unplug it when I'm not using it.
>
>
> Yeah ..... sure. Every day, for the rest of your life, you're actually
> going to remember to pull the plug on all the devices that will cause
> noise that might cause your alarm system to fail.

The sarcasm and anger (especially your comment, "It's hard to look
stupidity in the face and not be amazed") are unjustified; let the
discussion remain civilized. As it happens, my family and I do not watch
TV everyday. Nevertheless, if our TV does cause a problem (it may well
not), I would eventually have to get a cheap noiseblocker plug-in.

> And I suppose your
> going to go to your neighbors house and pull the cord on his power saw
> or his compressor or what ever else he happens to be running when your
> alarm trips.

My reading suggests that the odds of his causing significant
interference to my X10 system are low. If he's on that power saw more
than an hour every day, and if it causes a lot of noise on my wires, I
guess I would have to get the main line noise blocker. Weighing the
expected benefits of my hybrid hardwired alarm/X10/webcam security
system against the risks and costs of X10 issues, it seems that the
benefits win out.

> Oh yeah, that's right, instead of putting some money into
> a real alarm system, your going to go to Ebay and purchase a second
> hand signal blocker that just might block that signal .... but you can
> never be sure.

I'm sure you would agree that one can never be sure that a burglar will
not disable, or escape the hoped for effects of, any alarm system:
jambing wireless signals, cutting the phone line, leaving the scene
before police arrive, etc. Surely you do not think that X10 is the only
security option in which "you can never be sure." Probably nothing
inexpensive is without itsown serious limitations, so the best that one
can do is weigh the pros and cons of the various systems, features and
reliability, and do the best that one can within one's budget.

> So, I guess that since your the one who's come here to a group of
> porfessionals for advice and information and who are telling you that
> X10 is not the way to go ..... that you think that your estimation of
> what's technically credible and whats not .....is correct and ours is
> not.

On the question of 60% reliability and "it just never works", it is not
your word against mine, it is your word against the many individuals,
some evidently quite knowledgeable in electrical systems, who have
claimed to have effected and maintained 95% reliability in the course of
years. You have both been well meaning; you have both got experience.
The only "professional" difference that I can detect between your advice
and theirs is that you have in the end turned a technical discussion of
the pros and cons (and hows) of a system into a somewhat sour
confrontation. This mode of persuasion cannot and should not persuade
me. Peace now.

> I install alarms and X10 for a living ..... for over 36 years. If I
> thought X10 was a viable technology ..... I and thousands of other
> professionals would be using it.

Professionals can normally afford higher end, more hassle-free
solutions. Some of us who are not quite that lucky just have to do our
best with what we've got. Obviously X10 is not for everyone, even in
lower price brackets. It seems to be mainly for problem solvers who are
willing to make small sacrifices in reliability in order to get some
unique extra security features on a budget.

I'm sure that the products that you professionally endorse are better
than X10 in all sorts of ways. Again, if your product can integrate with
house lighting, can interface to a PC for complex control and to load up
my multi-webcam program, or the equivilent, at a price like that of X10,
then please tell me your product; I will seriously consider switching
over to it.

> It sucks!  Its a toy!  It's
> unreliable for use in security systems! Ya wanna turn on and off a
> light or an appliance, that life, death, the well being of your home
> and family don't depend on? ........   sure ..... go ahead. But  the
> bottom line is ........ you're wasting your time, money and effort,
> and risking too much, if you use it for security. Ive seen it tried
> over and over again ..... it just never works. Within a year or so,
> you'll have discoverd that the perpetual failure, maintenence and
> tweeking of the X10 will get too tiresome and eventually the system
> will sytematically disintegrate, due to your inattention and
> frustration.
>
>
>>>So you're going to have a security system that you'll have access to
>>>with a computer ..... that's going to do all kinds of fancy reporting
>>>to you, that may or may not get though to you ..... � and it's going
>>>to be with a secuity system that may or may not work. �Cool man!
>>>That's puting things in proper priority.
>>
>>No need for this tone of voice, I think.
>
>
> Sorry, but It's hard to look stupidity in the face and not be amazed.
>
>
>>>Wouldn't ya think that reliability is an important aspect of security?
>>
>>>NAHHHHH who would think that?
>>
>>>Jeeeeeeeeeze
>>
>>Take care. I recognize your best intentions and thank you for them.
>>Thanks again too for pointing out the PowerFlash.
>
>
>