Re: OT: Physicians for a National Health Program

["Edmund Fitzgerald" <ef@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Frank Olson" <use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Og%9j.2105$Tx.870@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Edmund Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> [....]
>>> How do you "stop" someone from doing this?  How do you stop someone like
>>> "Robert Pickton", "Bill Gacy", "Charles Manson"?  Timothy McVeigh?
>>
>>
>> Here's how you "stop" them.  First you apprehend them.  Then you give
>> them a fair trial.  Then you give them due process under law.  Then you
>> execute them.
>
> Fair comment.  You've apprehended a number of them.  I don't see anything
> happening "trial wise" (fair or unfair), and the "due process" certainly
> isn't "proceeding".
>

You seem to be referring to unlawful combatants.  I am referring to the
serial killers that you named. I don't get the connection between them and
unlawful combatants.


>
>>
>> That brings them to a dead stop.
>
> Check.
>
>
>>
>> I've never heard of Pickton.  And I didn't bother to Google him.
>
> Willy Pickton was just convicted in a New Westminster Court of murdering
> six women.  He bragged that the cops nailed him too soon.  He'd actually
> "done" 49 and wanted to finish with 50.  The remains of over twenty of his
> victims were recovered from his pig farm.  He'd apparently butchered the
> women, fed some of their parts to the pigs and delivered the rest to a
> local rendering plant.  Google "Missing Women in Vancouver".
>
>
>> But John Wayne Gacy was a serial killer [1970's] called the clown killer.
>> Manson ordered [1960's] his "family" of misfits to kill people for kicks
>> and to prove their loyalty to him.
>
> Not much different from what Bin Laden did, eh?
>

Huh?


>
>> McVeigh [1990's] was pissed off at the ATF and Janet Reno for what they
>> did to Koresh..  As the liberals would say, he expressed his anger
>> inappropriately.  Got the chair for it too.
>
> Actually he was executed by lethal injection.  Gacy got "the chair".
>


Doesn't matter to me.  I have little compassion for these cold blooded
serial killers.  To me they are like rabid dogs that must be put down for
the good of society.  With me it's not a question of  them deserving it or
not, or getting revenge or not, but one of not endangering society by having
these mad dogs running loose. Manson is up for parole.  If California had
govenor like Hucklebee he would probably be on the loose again.

>
>>
>> I hope you aren't trying to equate these individuals to al Qaeda.
>
> Nope.  Not all of them.  I figure the closest to Bin Laden would be
> Manson.

What's up with that?  It makes no sense at all.


 McVeigh acted pretty much alone (formulated his own terrorist
> plot).
>

I do recall that there was some kind a conspiracy theory about a Muslim man
that some claim was seen with McVeigh when he bought the fertilizer.  But
that never went anywhere.

>
>> If so you are either oblivious to reality or just grasping at straws.
>
> I'm trying to make a point.  Read my question again.
>
>
>> Unlawful combatants aren't arrested by cops, read their rights, given
>> lawyers, with trials by their peers, and due process of law through the
>> US court system..
>

> I remember the US Government complaining about the treatment of the
> American soldiers taken prisoner by the Viet Cong.  The Viet Cong
> considered them "unlawful combatants" too and as such didn't accord them
> the rights as prisoners under the Geneva Convention.

I haven't researched this and I don't really care to .  But I don't think
what you are saying is true.  American soldiers were considered prisoners of
war, but the North Vietnamese, who had agreeded to follow the Geneva
Convention - didn't.  And we complained.  Nothing new there.

An unlawful combatant is a cilivan who is not a member of an army, but takes
a role in hostilites without benefit of combat immunity.  Why would the
North Vietnamese claim our prisoners of war were unlawful combatants when it
is obvious to every one (except perhaps to you)  that they aren't?

I don't believe any enemy we have faced has followed the Geneva Convention
rules.  So much for the if we we follow the Geneva Convention our enemies
will follow suit theory.  That belief is nothing more than a liberal pipe
dream.


  It's interesting
> how what goes around comes around, isn't it??  I think the US should be
> setting an example for humane and just treatment of prisoners of war and
> "non-combatants".  Instead, we have people held incognito, without charge,
> and without representation.  And they're probably being tortured to boot.
> That just plain *sucks*.
>>

Our enemies look at sentiments such as this and sense only weaknesses to be
exploited.


The unlawful combatants, like the 75 at Gitmo are entitled to be tried by
the military commission President Bush established or the government of the
country where the unlawful combatant was taken into custody.  They are
treated humanly enough at Gitmo for Sicko Michael Moore to have taken a smal
boat load of folks from 9/11 there for movie health care saying it was
better than US citizens received.


>>> Who's the "enemy"?  How do you positively identify them?
>>>
>>
>> You ought to at least know the enemy by name by now.
>> Islamic Jihadist/Terrorist (as you prefer).
>
> I know twenty enemies by name and picture.  Bin Laden's the only one still
> alive.  The other nineteen immolated themselves when they crashed their
> hijacked jets.  I have no other identifiable enemies and neither do you.


You could easily get  plenty of  names of both live and dead enemies if you
really wanted them.


>
>
>>
>>  Individual identification can be difficult because as you have so
>> astutely pointed out they do not wear "identifiable uniforms" plus they
>> hide behind civilians.
>

>
>
>> For this reason it would behoove the "good" Muslims to root the Islamic
>> Jihadist/Terrorist out from their midst to avoid  unfortunate
>> misunderstandings during search and destroy missions.
>
> Better yet...  forget the "search and destroy" stuff.  Get out of Iraq.
> Killing only brings more killing.  I thought we were done with the "eye
> for an eye" and "life for a life" bullshit.


The words "search and destroy" set you off don't they.

Sorry break the one to break the news to you Frank, but it's clear we're are
killing a lot more of them than than they are of us.

>
>
>> Why would any good Muslims think it was a dandy idea to have a group of
>> Jihadist/Terrorist bomb makers operating in the house next door?
>
> Why indeed!  It's bad for the neighbourhood.

Boom!  You can say that again.