Re: Quality Ademco engineering

[Eyeball Kid <jimbo1@xxxxxxx>]

Milhouse Van Houten wrote:

>>
>>see my earlier post regarding CO detectors on a zone expander
>
>
> That is not a bug.. It's a well documented incompatibility.  In fact,
> on the ADI site (Webtech, and ordering site, it states right next to
> the part number * not for CO use*)  So if you missed that - you're the
> bug.  2 wire smokes can not be used on expanders either - is that a
> bug too?
>

I went and hauled a zone expander off the shelf today and looked inside
and I'll be darned if there isn't now a one page sheet packed with the
unit warning you not to use it with a CO detector - this is what happens
when you spend all your time as an office weenie.  I humbly retract my
previous comment.
>
>
>>(my B**** list for Ademco/Vinegarpit is two pages long and I give to
>>everyone from the company I meet)
>
>
> Your what list?  Bassshit list?  Post the vinegar here and let the
> experts analyze your 'list'.  I'll bet most can be crossed off because
> you didn't RTFM.
>
Alright, in the interests of generating some discussion ...

My Personal B**** List
1. 6160 Keypad ? back light turns off after 2 seconds ? make it longer
(10 seconds)

2. Vista 15/20 ? you can?t put a CO detector wired Open/Cross on a zone
expander only on the panel.

3. When programming used codes it boots you out of programming if you
hesitate for more than 3 seconds (to look in the manual to confirm the
next step).

4. Zone expanders are huge and make it impossible to install more than 2
in the enclosure without it looking like a mess.

5. Low temp ratings on Sensors and Modules
a. Motion Sensors ? The DT series when manufactured by C&K used to be
rated to -25°C. The DT72xx series are only rated to -10°C, and all other
motions are rated to only 0°C. I have never been given an answer as to
whether these temperatures are arbitrarily chosen by the engineering
team (can people in Long Island grasp that it can get this cold) or if
they are realistic (i.e.: it won?t work reliably below this
temperature). Ultimately, we end up having to use a sensor from
another manufacturer in any application that is unheated.

b. Wireless products ? similarly rated to only 0°C, is this an arbitrary
rating?
Or can you derate the battery life at lower temperatures?

c. FG1625 rated to - 10°C.

6. User Literature ? the manuals need to be re-written to make them
easier to understand (Change the font too ? Times New Roman look out of
date). Every panel needs a one page ?Dummies guide to your new alarm
system? user summary that is graphics rich. (Again see the examples from
the C&K Sierra panel)

7. Vista 15/20 ? if you program a relay or output to trip on
TLM failure there is no way to program the relay/output to
reset on TLM reset.

8. There needs to be a BIG (oval shaped?) opening in the
back of the enclosure. (See Figure 1). Our preferred
installation method is to fish the wires inside the wall and in
the back of the panel to avoid having a big bundle of wires
running down the wall which is both sucks aesthetically and
from a security point of view (I?ve been to a couple of breakins
where someone has just chopped the bundle and torn the
panel off the wall).

9. Vista 32FB. When used as a fire transmitter (replacement
for the Silent Knight 5104 which we used to use), will not send
a restoral if the Fire Panel restores. After silencing and
resetting the fire alarm panel, somebody has to go to the keypad and
reset the 32FB as well.

10. There are no stickers available for the keypads on which you can
list 16 zones (one problem). So we went and got some custom made.
However the space on the inside of the keypad door is limited to where
you can put a sticker and how big it can be by its design. (Reinforcing
ribs). This space should be as big as possible to accommodate a sticker
with zones, shortened user guide etc.

11. True Alpha description programming ? We want to be able to program
every word that appears on the keypad rather than having to select from
a list of canned words. We also want to be able to program in
Descriptors for the partitions (Shop vs. Office)

12. Every time you power up the panel it should demand you set the
date/time before letting you do anything else. (Like a Silent Knight
panel). Invariably when a customer goes to look in history the date/time
was never set and they have to try and extrapolate the information they
are looking for.

13. Make the transformer for the Lynx (9V) look distinctive (shape,
color whatever)from the 16V transformers that all the other panels use.
We have blown up a couple of Lynxes when someone grabs the wrong
transformer.

14. The installation manuals don?t reference ULC (or cUL) install
options but they do reference the UL install options.

15. When viewing history it continues to show current activity (i.e.:
you are trying to view history but people are walking around in the
office so the motions and doors keep showing up.)

16. Vista 15p- 20p panels should have both a trigger out put that can
handle 300ma for strobes (like the DSC Panels) instead of 40ma and 20ma
that cannot do anything but wire into a low current relay. They should
also have a dry contact programmable relay like the C&K Sierra; this
would add flexibility to the panel and set it above the competition

17. Redesign the keypad door closure. Presently Ademco keypads have very
fragile plastic tabs that secure the keypad door up, these have been
breaking all the time, very poor design leading to customer frustration
and free service calls. To my knowledge we have not been able to order
replacement doors for the 6150 and 6160 kp?s. .

18. User?s manual for the 6270 Touchpad does not have instructions on
how to change the Master User?s Code in it.

19. Revise the packaging ? the large piece of #6 Polystyrene that holds
the contents of the can in place cannot be easily recycled. It should be
replaced with a piece of cardboard.

20. Add a tactile ?divot? to the [5] key so someone with little or no
vision can navigate the keypad ? a popular feature on the C&K Sierra.


If I was designing the Next Generation Panel it would
1. Have a built in NIC and RJ-45 for IP connection (in addition to a
dialer connection).

2. If there are to be multiple models of keypads (Alpha vs. Icon vs.
LED), the back plate, front cover and keypad cover would all be
universal (only the electronics inside the keypad would change from
model to model). The inside of the keypad cover would have the largest
possible space for an instruction sticker.

3. Rather than build a keypad with a built in RF receiver (or Voice
Module for that matter) I would design these module to replace the
standard back plate on the keypad. If a customer wants a keypad with a
receiver you remove the back plate on the keypad, screw the back plate
with the receiver to the wall and the keypad snaps on top of it.
Similarly the voice annunciator snaps behind the keypad and if you need
to the modules can be stacked to create a keypad with a receiver and a
voice annunciator. Each module increases the thickness of
the keypad by 3/8? or so. Less items to manufacture, stock etc.

4. Simplify the programming ? does anyone use Ademco 4+1 anymore?. There
are two standards for sending signals in this industry. The De Jure
Standard is SIA (and your new panel should support it) and the De Facto
Standard is Contact ID. This industry needs to be dragged (kicking and
screaming if necessary) into the 21st century and embraced industry
standards like the computer industry. Twenty years ago it seems that
every manufacturer had their own proprietary scheme for networking
computers. Now I can go buy any NIC install it any PC and expect it to
work with any router.

a. Select the format (SIA or CID) the signals sent are all predetermined
(it?s a standard, right?)

b. What do you want sent ? select On or Off for
i. Alarms
ii. Restoral
iii. Openings and Closings
iv. etc

5. No proprietary modem needed to download. For direct connection would
use the Ethernet connection (and benefit from it?s vastly better speeds).

6. An (optional) RS232 output module if you need to connect to some
other system.

7. Supervised power Supplies (1, 3 and 5 amp) that connect to the keybus
and report AC failure and Low battery conditions

8. A wireless bridge to connect two wired portions of a system together.
(Example a manufacturing plant that has a system in one building. Then a
second building is built and we install a Supervised power supply and
more wired devices on a keybus in it (keypads, zone expanders etc) and
then tie the two buildings together with a Wireless Bridge (like trying
two portions of a LAN with a wireless bridge).

9. A small panel (max 48 zones) should be able to partition into more
than 2 areas (the Sierra was capable of 8 areas).

10. All panels and zone expanders would use a common resistor value. (A
common problem we find now is the zone expander has been wired with the
wrong value EOL, the right value for the panel)

11. Wireless products based on Zigbee (802.15) protocol to benefit from
the ?on the fly? mesh networking capability of this protocol. You could
also benefit from the ability to buy pre-built assemblies offshore. A
?Universal? transmitter module that will accept a NO or NC sensor and
has enough batteries to be able to provide 12VDC to attached devices (CO
detectors etc). This would allow the use of non-wireless devices that
require power.

12. Selectable auto-restore on all fire zones

13. For each partition you can have it report to a different
receiver/station (separate account number, phone number, format and what
signals you want sent and test frequency)

14. Every zone is configurable

15. No more manuals! ? keypad should be intuitive enough or provide the
information you need to use the system ? think of an ATM (Jim
Boehmer?from Price?s Alarm)

16. Low battery signals sent to the Mon Center ? there should be a
different signal sent to the MC for a Low Battery condition if the AC
has failed (critical!) than if there is a Low Battery but the AC is
still on (not so critical). (Jim Boehmer?from Price?s Alarm)

Low Battery from a Wireless Sensor. Residentiallly, rather than having
the panel beep at 0230 in the morning (or whenever the low battery comes
in) and wake up the homeowner ? just have it appear on the keypad and
not allow you to arm or disarm until you acknowledge the trouble (that
intuitive keypad again) with your code (logged to history so that we can
prove to the customer someone knew about the trouble). Sample message -
?there is a low battery in sensor 12 (Basement Smoke Detector) ? you
must acknowledge this by entering your PIN


THIS COLLECTION OF THOUGHTS HAVE BEEN GATHERED FROM VARIOUS SMART PEOPLE
I HAVE SPOKEN TOO OVER THE YEARS - DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE I CAME UP
WITH THEM ON MY OWN!!