Re: store system w 4-8 cameras ?

["Roland Moore" <roland@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I guess we all struggle for the lower end price point gear for certain jobs.
Thats why I tried the Video Insight stuff originally. Usually I build one up
with their lastest software every year to see if it has improved enough for
us to sell. I never find it very appealing and that is disappointing because
I am always hopeful that it will finally make it. In addition to the reasons
you mention in your post about the Video Insight application being a
resource hog that takes the system to its knees under load, it has an
otherwise unrefined look and feel. The video grabber hardware lacks  its own
processing ability so the CPU gets overloaded and frames drop (at best) or
the system freezes up (at worst). It lacks POS integration (other than ad
hoc), it is not really OPC and no major access control vendor interfaces
with it. For the most part it appeals to IT guys that see it as a computer
(project) with a Microsoft .Net interface that they understand, so they like
it. They seem to think it does what they think a DVR should do (because
they're not in the security business for the most part) and have nothing to
compare it to. It is a niche market item not a real main stream unit for
anyone in the security marketplace in my opinion. There are hundreds of
brands of DVR units, some for the build it yourself crowd and just becuase I
don't like some brand doesn't mean that someone else won't love it. However
our company has spent a great deal of time and money narrowing down DVR
units it will sell and support. For brands of gear we use now it is Verint
(yes I know they hog big box sales like Home Depot for their own) at the
very high end (for video analytics, access control integration and for
support for hundreds of cameras on one system), although there are some
development issues for Nextiva versus LVM 4.51 (not to mention the damn
strange ways it "grooms" video - I can't get used to that), then Bosch DiBos
8.x for general purpose analog and/or IP cameras (for alarm system
integration and easy IIS web interface), Intellex 4.0 (NOT 3.x anything!
those are great boat anchors), only the Ultra not the LT, (for access
control interface ability), and at the low end Electronics Line for POS
integration ability, but the sales force never seems to spec those EL units
in their bids so they don't get sold. Other than EL our company sold well
over $500k of these DVR units (you don't have to sell too many Verint
systems or Intellex Ultra Units to get to sales totals in the hundreds of
thousands of dollars) alone in the past year. I wouldn't run away from an I3
DVR (the license plate and human recognition features are great if you need
them - but a bit bleeding edge) and I suspect you would be far happier with
the I3 DVR brand versus one from Video Insight. If you are a high volume
dealer and aren't afraid to pony up the 50k annual minimum you can build up
COTS units with Verint gear (if you like the build your own thing). If
you're into computers, like it sounds like you are from your post, Verint
Nextiva comes with MOM, SQL 2000 (soon 2005) server and all of the other
Microsoft stuff you might love (or love to hate). Most any of these DVR
units I mentioned we sell, whether COTS built or factory built DVR's, have
feature sets, stabilty and interfaces that are truly miles beyond Video
Insight, but that's just my opinion (based on years of experience).

"Matt Ion" <soundy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:8SuSg.60314$1T2.23760@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>I don't think you really want something that records direct to DVD...
>besides needing to replace the disc regularly, you'll end up with a big
>stack of discs very quickly, and you'll need to label and file and store
>each one - tracking down a piece of video later can get complicated!
>
> Comparing "standalone" DVRs vs. PCs is really pointless... most standalone
> units still record to hard drives, and many are simply scaled-down PCs
> running an embedded OS of some kind.  Their only REAL advantage over PCs
> is cost.
>
> Any PC can be VERY reliable, as long as you don't cheap out.  Use a
> server-quality board and RAID-spec hard drive(s) if you're that worried
> about it.  Be sure to provide lots of cooling, especially for the
> drive(s).  Put the OS and software on a separate drive from the video
> data. RAID is fine, but remember if you're using mirroring, you'll need a
> twice the actual drive space. (I find using the smallest available drive,
> usually 80GB these days, for a system drive, I section off one partition
> for the OS and software, the rest for "export" space, and save any video
> of incidents there... then if the main video drive dies, that exported
> video isn't lost).
>
> Keep in mind that as your framerates go up, your data throughput capacity
> must go up as well.  I've built 16-channel, 240fps machines, which allows
> 30fps for every two cameras, but found that even with a fairly powerful
> computer, I've had to keep the frame sizes small (320x240) to run at full
> speed, or the computer will have trouble keeping up, and will suffer from
> dropped frames (it also makes the system VERY slow to respond on playback,
> unless you stop recording first). You're probably better to run multiple
> disks in a striped RAID to maximize available throughput; again, if you
> don't cheap out on the drives, they'll be plenty reliable.
>
> Remember that full-motion TV video and film is only 30fps; the difference
> will be barely noticeable even at 15fps, and 1-2fps per camera is usually
> sufficient for surveillance purposes, and allows you to use higher image
> sizes (640x480 or better) and lower compression, for better quality.
>
> BTW, if you really need higher quality, there are high-resolution IP
> cameras available (up to 3MP - 640x480 is only about .3MP) that connect to
> the DVR via ethernet rather than analog video... take a look at the demos
> at www.camacc.com
>
> The DVRs I build, I use the VideoInsight system (www.videoinsight.net)
>
>
>
> - Bobb - wrote:
>> Thanks for the info so far.
>>
>> If I used a DVR how often to change the DVD ? Every 4/8 hrs ? Is this a
>> "plain old DVR " like I'd get at Circuit City/Best Buy ? How to view
>> something that you suspect just happened - " how to back up ?" and still
>> be recording ?  Would it be one DVR per camera ?
>>
>> Since I posted the question, I've looked online at systems and played a
>> bit with a webcam which generated another question:   Some of the PC
>> systems state that they have 4 cameras, a 100-200gb drive , will record
>> "X" fps (varies) and they'll hold a month's worth of info on the hard
>> drive (and the samples they show look fine). I hooked up a logitech
>> webcam on a pc and the video was so-so. In minute it was a 12mb file - if
>> it takes 12 mb to record a fair image in a minute, how can these systems
>> hold a month's worth of quality video from 4 cameras ??  Is it all a
>> matter of the software that comes with the camera system ?  Here's some
>> of the stuff I saw online - any opinions ?
>> http://spyville.com/digital-video-recorder.html
>> http://www.ezwatchstore.com/
>> http://www.stardot-tech.com/express6/order_form.html
>> RapidOS PCI Wireless Digital Surveillance Card
>> http://www.x10.com/cameras/cameras_wired.html
>>
>> Thanks again for any feedback.
>>
>> Bobb
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bob Worthy" <securinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:oDaSg.13091$vi3.3630@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>
>>> "- Bobb -" <bobb@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:NIGdnXAD6oUpuoTYnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>> Have a friend looking to buy a convenience store and would like
>>>> info/recommendations on a pc-based system that would have 4/6/8 ?
>>>> cameras recording to the PC -  in case of  pettty theft/ hold up etc .
>>>
>>>
>>> Where PC's ever really meant to be a security tool? There are inherent
>>> reliability issues with using PC's for recording and storing large
>>> amounts
>>> of video.
>>>
>>>
>>>> He asked me my opinion since I know computers , but other than the
>>>> yellow pages/ google etc I don't know how to research this. Since he
>>>> brought it up I realized that I didn't know anything about this and
>>>> looking to learn.
>>>
>>>
>>> Look at DVR's, of which there are many on the market to choose from.
>>> They
>>> have all the neccessary features needed for security applications,
>>> especially if there is prosecution possiblities involved. Recordings
>>> done on
>>> someones PC will not usually be accepted except for some initial police
>>> investigation.
>>