Re: store system w 4-8 cameras ?

[Matt Ion <soundy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

- Bobb - wrote:
>
> "Matt Ion" <soundy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:8SuSg.60314$1T2.23760@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> I don't think you really want something that records direct to DVD...
>> besides needing to replace the disc regularly, you'll end up with a
>> big stack of discs very quickly, and you'll need to label and file and
>> store each one - tracking down a piece of video later can get
>> complicated!
>>
>> Comparing "standalone" DVRs vs. PCs is really pointless... most
>> standalone units still record to hard drives, and many are simply
>> scaled-down PCs running an embedded OS of some kind.  Their only REAL
>> advantage over PCs is cost.
>
>
> Agreed - so I'll have them use a PC. As for what the end-user wants in
> the store ...how about some feedback / experience on this:
>
> I asked how long they plan to keep the info etc and they said that they
> don't NEED a live/smooth/lifelike video. They want it to more to watch
> kids -live- in the convenience store ( they're near a school) and if
> they see stealing they can save that piece of video ( the last minute or
> two) as a file to backup to CD/DVD file. On a "normal day" they have no
> need to warehouse the video, so as long as they have the last ... 10
> minutes of each camera that's fine. It's all family owned so there's no
> need to replay the video ( as an owner might if he mistrusted employees/
> suspected them of stealing ). I think it's nutty to spend 2-3k if their
> only objective is to prevent stealing a $2 candy bar but it's not my
> money.  Matt,  could you give me an idea of what the cheapest system
> might go for ? To install it all ( 8/16 cameras/wiring etc) ballpark is
> fine - is it  ~ $3k or more like 10k ?

I've seen standalone units that record to an HDD in a removable sled with 4, 9
or 16 inputs going in the $400-$600 (wholesale, that is).  One of those would
certainly do what they need, and even an 80GB hard drive (about the smallest
you'll find new these days) would give them at least a week or two of storage.
The downside to them is they have no output devices - no CD writer, no USB ports
for an external drive or "thumb drive", no flash-card slots... the only way to
export video from them is to hook a VCR or other capture device to the main
monitor output and just record stuff realtime as it plays back.

> I did just check
> http://www.demovi.com/videoinsight/Pages/AllCameras.aspx   and that IS
> very good. For them I think it's probably way beyond their needs and way
> over their budget. Perhaps it might be what they SHOULD have, but I'm
> just going by what they have now and their expectations.

I suspect once they start getting used to having that video available, they'll
start wanting to review older footage... say, if a daily or even weekly count of
something comes up short, they may want to go back and see if some units
"wandered off".  They'll also find that the ability to NOT have to sit and watch
the screen constantly becomes very attractive.  Also consider the following
scenario: kid rips off something more expensive, gets caught and handed over the
police; police come back a week later looking for video evidence.  Nice to have
that extra storage.

There are lots of other instances where it can be handy to keep footage around
longer... to capture a break-in while the store is closed, for example... catch
employees skimming from the till... monitor people trying to pass fake money or
attempt sleight-of-hand tricks with their payments... many DVRs support
point-of-sale interfaces that will overlay a text readout of what's going
through the till, over the camera image of the counter, so it's easy to
reference later that what was rung up matches what was actually bought.

And that's all just for starters :)  Your clients may not be thinking of these
things now, but it's some things you should probably run by them for consideration.

>> Any PC can be VERY reliable, as long as you don't cheap out.  Use a
>> server-quality board and RAID-spec hard drive(s) if you're that
>> worried about it.
>
>
> A server ?

Not necessarily... a "SERVER-QUALITY" motherboard will be more reliable and
handle data better than a cheap $100 all-in-one board.  As with anything else,
it's a matter of balancing requirements for reliability vs. cost.

> At this store they have a small form factor 2ghz pc running
> XP pro / 6 cameras and they back up to CD nightly. It's a standalone PC.
> - no remote access etc . This PC came with the store when they bought it
> and the security folks that sold it ( there's a sticker on it) were
> useless as far as advice / fixing it when it stopped recording - which
> is how I got involved.

Sound like they're halfway there...