Re: Great deal, great product.

[Frank Olson <Use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I know this probably won't do any good, but I just gotta give it the
"old college try".

Firetek wrote:
>>Like me, he look's to be a "first timer" here, probably hasn't
>>taken the time to familiarize himself with the Group's FAQ
>>and isn't aware that the majority of individuals that post here are
>>actually in the trade.
>
>

Robert responded:
> The "FAQ" you're talking about was written by someone who hasn't
> posted here more than once or twice in several years.  It was not
> voted into authority by anyone and it has been completely ignored
> by almost everyone who regularly posts here since it was written.

That is patently untrue and doesn't explain why, when *you* don't post
into the Group (captial "G") for several weeks, people here tend to
follow the FAQ.  No one bad-mouths you while you're gone (it takes about
four or five days for the animosity to die down and the response
messages to your posts to disappear of the servers).

Robert continues:
> The above doesn't even address the facts that (1) in ALT
> newsgroups there really are no rules;

You point out "the obvious".  There is "Netiquette" though, and it
appears you know as much about that, as you do about "ethics" (in this
Group).  Why is it you don't flood CHA or any of the other DIY forums
with your "PR" posts?  Because people there won't tolerate it.  People
here don't either, but your attitude toward the trade in general and
your own past experiences in it have so prejudiced you that you take
every opportunity you can to put it (and the people in it) down.

You have so much going for you, and would probably really benefit the
most from participating here if you weren't so "egotesticle",
self-centered, and arrogant.  You have no compunction putting down the
same people that respond to questions from the public and who don't have
the same transparent agenda you do.  Your standard line is that everyone
here is against "DIY", and I have yet to see one participant here voice
that opinion.  There are plenty of "off colour" remarks, though, and
it's these you hold up to support your argument.  I would like you to
show me where "Firetek" once slammed DIY.  I can count the number of
informative links to manufacturer's websites you've posted on one hand.
  The number of links to your store, OTOH, number in the "thousands".
Unlike the "thousands" of systems you've sold though, the facts about
the links are far easier to document.


> (2) that in this particular
> newsgroup there are a large number of folks who wouldn't obey any
> rules if they existed;

You're wrong about that again.  Read what I stated earlier about what
happens in your many "absences".


> and finally (3) authority does not accrue
> to any document that anyone who posts in an ALT newsgroup decides
> to write, least of all Steve R's proposed (it was never
> "enacted") FAQ.

And even if it was "enacted", you wouldn't abide by it.  Steve
frequently had problems with you, and both privately and publicly asked
you to step into line and follow the Group's FAQ.  Read the originating
message again, Robert.  Where does it say anywhere that this is a forum
in which to flog your wares?  Frank (Firetek) mentioned that what you're
doing here is akin to paying for a booth at ISC and trying to sell to
end users.  This is an *INDUSTRY* related forum.

Not-with-standing the above, the FAQ (and origninating message) does
mention interaction with the general public.  It is however not intended
as a marketing tool the way you seem to interpret and exploit it.  Most
of the participants here object to your behaviour publically.  Some are
far more polite (like RHC, Jim Rojas, and Bob La Londe).  I don't think
it takes a "rocket scientist" to know what Jack Stevens or Mark Leuck
think about you, though.  I wonder how much more business Jim Rojas
receives when other people post links to his store.  No one here posts
links to yours.  In CHA, I've never seen a single individual recommend
or post a link to your store either.  They appreciate your
participation, but I don't think they favour you with business.  Your
reputation in Usenet leaves much to be desired and I won't mention (or
post) the "other item".


>
> You may or may not realize this but the only authority over what
> can be posted to a newsgroup is the AUP of the service provider
> of the poster.  In short, there are no rules.  That is why most
> of the IB are still able to post here.  If there were rules,
> these folks would have been barred years ago.

I think it would be the other way around actually.  Most of the
participants here would vote to have you ousted in a heart-beat.  Some
have even tried.


>
> Your turn.


And then you criticize him for "conversing" with you.  Typical.

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com