Re: Rough pricing question

[Joe Bramblett <kd5nrh@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:05:17 +0000, Roland Moore wrote:

> 1) What AHJ has the regualtions (if any) on the work you wish to be
> performed? Is this job going to require submittals and O&M manuals?

As far as we can tell, the city hasn't really put much thought into
anything that doesn't call them, and the county just flat doesn't care.

> What is
> the existing door harware.

Nonexistent once the current provider is ditched.  Think little holes
where equipment should be and wires yanked out of the walls.

> 2) The first door is read in and read out?  There should be more to that
> door bid, like at least an intercom to allow people to get let in when they
> forget to read out; especially if there are other doors that are REX only?

Nothing so fancy; we just want it to deny access unless a valid cars is
used, and log each entry/exit.  If someone wants to exit twelve times
without coming in, that's fine, just log it.  Traffic is so heavy at that
door during shift changes, I doubt we could enforce a "don't hold it for
the next guy" policy from there with a shotgun.

> Why have read in and read out? Is not even legal in most places to have that
> as a sole means of egress.

Obviously there would be a big red button on the frame, preferably with
some sort of squealer to discourage its misuse, to let anyone out without
a card.

> 3) What front end? Who supplies the computer? Is this an add on upgrade or
> new system? A maximum of 16 doors doesn't mean much. 16 doors of NStar
> versus 16 doors of Keyscan, versus 16 doors of Software House represents a
> huge difference in price just on brand and features.

Effectively new system, since everything is currently leased from a
vendor they want to ditch, and all we need is; if a valid card is
presented, open the door and log who/when, if a button is pushed, open the
door and maybe log when. Something that can display in realtime what card
is being used where and match it to a name would be preferred.  Who
provides the computer depends on whether it costs more to have one
provided than for us to provide it, though interfacing with the existing
network (to allow HR or a supervisor to look at the records directly)
would be greatly preferred.

> 4) Fire alarm interface? Who pays? Customer or dealer?

Would it even be necessary with an exit button available?

> 5) Interface to visitor management and CCTV?

Not really; if there's a cheap way to do it, maybe, but as it stands, we
just have a couple of numbered visitor cards, and everybody else has to be
escorted at all times.

> 6) Pole maounted gear out of doors. Who saws the lot and pipes it? Or is
> it RF? What kind of building mounts?

Not to sound like a broken record, but what's cheapest?  If you charge
more for the outside cable runs than facilities maintenance can do them
for, then they'll do them.  All the building mounts are currently U-bolted
to the supports on the corrugated metal.

> 7) To calculate storage for 21 days is not possible unless you also know
> the CIF and frame rate and idle times etc.

Obviously that would depend on the use of each camera; the two sweeping
the parking lots would need a higher frame rate and resolution than the
two sets of face and gate cams.  Figure our current settings are "crappy"
and "doesn't matter much since it's out of focus anyway."

> 8) Motion sensing? If you
> don't have record on motion you will have lots of fun reviewing video.
> No smart search? No analytics? Buy lots of Coke and popcorn.

As it stands, our smart search algorithm consists of either the guard
remembering when something happened, or guessing times until it's narrowed
down.  Record on motion would only help with the rest of the system on
holidays, since the rest of the time there's a lot of milling around going
on all over the site.  If we look at a camera and don't see something
moving, we generally assume it's failed.

> 9) No one
> does VHS and dumps to printer on today's new systems. Why would you?

Because our local PD handles getting a floppy of JPGs by sending it home
with one of their officers to print them out.  They only got a DVD player
at the station a couple years back amd the record/playback in their cars
is all VHS. If we need them to act on something, hardcopy stills and VHS
are the way to go.

>10) Will this system have a badge printer?

Yes.

> Round numbers?
> $2500.00 per regular door of access.
> $5500 for DVR
> $2800 per PTZ
> $A bunch for Labor

Presumably, since you don't list recurring costs, this is for purchase,
rather than lease?  Either is acceptable, as long as we know what ballpark
we're in.

> Sounds like you're client may be going for the lowest bid which will
> equal lowest satisfaction, lowest performance and lowest quality.

Gee, you're an intuitive sort, aren't you?  :)

Since we're the only ones who really use the camera system, we're trying
to give them some ideas of what could be improved when they do the
changeover without too much increase in price.  Unfortunately the current
vendor promised them the moon, and delivered, for the most part, a
marginally useful system.  Two cameras (the parking lot sweeps) do what
they're supposed to, while the rest are either badly positioned, out of
focus. or have apparently unresolvable problems with night mode.

> Most
> companies will negotiate a fixed price for well defined work. I don't
> think our company would bid this if asked. There is too much work in bid
> prep and we are too busy to waste time on maybe work when there is for
> certain work that is waiting to be done.

Well, I suppose I could narrow a lot of it down, but we're a bit out of
the loop due to a site supervisor (our guy, not the client's) who "didn't
want to be bothered about none of that fancy junk" when they asked him
what the system would need to do.  Now that he's seen what that attitude
got us, he's on board with the idea that we need to be more involved in
things like this, and we're trying to get back in the loop before it
happens again

> I bet that may be the case
> where you are as well.

No...the case where we are is that there's nobody within 65 miles that
deals with this stuff on a regular basis, so the client rep apparently
went with the first company that would send out a smooth-talking sales rep
who told him what was needed.  As such, we have gate cameras mounted 15
feet up, practically directly over the callbox area, so we can clearly
see the roof of a vehicle waiting to get in, and for the annual lease
price, they could hire two more full time guards with handheld cameras and
binoculars.