Re: Ademco Vista Programming

["Roland Moore" <roland@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It seems to me that you are trying to convince me that the login to the
Honeywell site is some exclusive club we as dealers or integrators have all
been invited to as some special recognition by Honeywell (or some other
manufacturer to their respective site). From that exclusivity we should
honor and respect a special trust given to us and never divulge the login,
especially publicly (as Bass has done), as that is an ethical lapse to be
utterly condemned. If that is the case I hardly know where to begin. I guess
the best way is ask you to look at the email you received when you got your
GE web site login, since that is another site that uses a common login like
Honeywell's. If you read it carefully it is easy to see that the real
concern these huge manufacturer's have is being caught up in some lawsuits
that would come about by openly posting information directly to consumers.
It might be better for the consumers to have direct access to that
information in some cases. In some cases not. If these manufacturers gave
open access to their web site it might suggest that they were operating
under the idea that this was consumer grade product they were selling and
not have a layer of legal protection they desire against being subject to
certain consumer protection laws. Since the sites with "secure" but yet
common logins involve mostly companies that sell through distribution, or
worse directly to end users, they need that login. Bass probably makes them
nervous too by selling the way he does since their gear is not packaged
properly for consumer sale in many cases. So they may treat him one way
publicly, but they will always take his money one way or another. Sites like
Bosch and others that limit the sale of their equipment to certain dealers,
and further limit who dealers can sell to, can and do open their web site
and do it without that need or concern for a login. That login is there for
their protection from more aggressive consumer laws and other legal limits,
it has little to do with us as dealers or integrators. In many cases I feel
sorry for the hard working smaller dealer that is trying hard to make ends
meet. Many times he is pinched by adverse financial conditions he can't
control. He has to struggle to buy product at the best discount he can.
Let's see how guys like GE and Honeywell honor that. Do they go out and try
to find the dealer that does the best installations, has the best customer
satisfaction, or is the most honest, or ethical, or hardworking, or church
going, or the best role model or general swell guy type of dealer or
integrator? Not only no, but hell no. They want volume dealers and want to
tie up those dealers with their product line. Go out and find some of the
bigger guys in your area that use one manufacturer and look to see what they
are paying for equipment that you buy all the time and know the prices for.
I don't think you'll be too happy to see that in some cases it is 50% less
or even discounted more from what the best price you ever got for it. How is
that possible? Easy, guys like Honeywell go through ADI, Anixter or who ever
they can (or go direct) and create special part numbers for dealers and
price those parts differently. GE is worse. What about a level playing
field? Not for GE vertical integration. With that deal you could be
pre-screwed out of a job six months before an RFP is ever dreamed up. Ever
feel shafted when a big customer doesn't pay you in 30 days and you get hit
with credit hold? By 60 days you're getting collection calls every day from
the parts house or manufacturer. It means you can't start you next job or
maybe even meet payroll. With GE dealers it's no problem. Need 90 days to
pay? No big deal. Need longer for a bigger job? No problem. So big
manufacturers are promising anything and everything to dealers or
integrators to use their gear exclusively, and thus make the dealer or
integrator forget the idea of a dealer's or integrator's job of being brand
agnostic and picking out the best equipment he can for his customer. In
other words screw the customer, buy from us and we will one way or another
buy your conscience. So the same guys that have no ethics to be concerned
with are the ones you want me to be concerned with in some way; about a
login when ironically they take no action to show they're the least bit
concerned about the login themselves? So if you think I should be in any way
worried about something that makes you feel special, that Bass has now
somehow upset, I don't. When asked I said I don't think what Bass did was a
big deal (or any deal really). I would think you might be more concerned
about big companies showing and playing favorites behind your back, selling
directly to end users, and selling out certain dealers and integrators in
favor of other dealers or integrators. By the way who do you think made them
God?  Wait, I know already, Bass did. Right? For the record I'll say it
again:
1) I did NOT post the login
2) I said I would not post the login
3) I don't know what reasons Bass has for posting what he does. Sorry I am
not smart enough to judge his business model with the time or interest I
have available to do it. If you think that Bass and I are in league to
destroy some imagined exclusive club you have conjured up I can't help you.
Perhaps I can say this instead. If there are none so blind as those who
refuse to see, I'll paint a little mental picture for you. If you want me to
post a login to a web site I will (with Bass' permission) tattoo the login
on Bass'  bare ass on send you the picture complete with me planting a big
smooch on it. You can post that where you please. Since you never fail to
keep us appraised of Bass' medical condition you might be mindful of the
bromide that "The opportunity of a lifetime must be seized within the
lifetime of the opportunity".

 "Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1165554741.621676.273310@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Roland wrote:
>> You're right! I don't think it is a big deal . If what is available
>> behind
>> the door is free, and it is also left outside the door for free, then
>> there
>> is no difference in the end. Perhaps one day Honeywell will use their
>> already secure infrastructure to issue individual logins and put
>> something
>> there on the site worth securing (that isn't already available nearly
>> everywhere else). However that would cost money to administer the site
>> properly and Honeywell might not want to spend that money. Again, I
>> didn't
>> post the login. I said I would not choose to do it. Someone else has a
>> different idea. That is merely his choice. He has his reasons. I don't
>> recall any document that anyone signed (including Bass) that described
>> how
>> to use that password. I have had to sign such documents for other sites
>> access logins. Bass says the reasons are not to hurt anyone but to help.
>> Whether I agree or not is not important. In my view there are only two
>> ways
>> to stop it. One is Bass the other is Honeywell. I'll let one or the other
>> take care of it.
>>
>
> I have learned one thing from this.
> I should not have attempted to point out something so obvious to you.
> It won't happen again.
>
> There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
>