Re: False alarms

["Everywhere Man" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx>]

Hey I love old folks, Norm. They always leave me cool stuff when they
croak. It's like having a high-yield CD that only cost you a few hours
of pretending you care about them.
I hope Bob leaves me his prized collection of Limited Edition plates
from the Franklin Mint (because all old folks in Florida believe those
things will increase in value- yes throw away the portfolio I now have
the Honeymooners Plate #3129 as a financial safety net) and the 1978
Lincoln Town Car with 12 miles on it and the white landau roof (because
all old folks drive gigantic cars). Oh and I want the 6ft plastic
sunflower windmill too.

I refuse to comment on you or anyone else pecking away. It's not my
business what you peckers do. :-)

Norm Mugford wrote:
> "Everywhere Man Wrote:
>
> "Norm is a MUCH MUCH MUCH younger
>  guy than you so he has no excuse".
>
> That's right Tom, make smartass remarks about Bob,
>  just because he's an old man.....a very old man.
> We should have respect for those older folks.
>
> I'm just pecking away at the keyboard.
>
> Norm Mugford
>
>
>
> "Everywhere Man" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1144798937.422646.279410@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Bob Worthy wrote:
> >> "Everywhere Man" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:1144777730.757928.242790@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > Bob Worthy wrote:
> >> > > "Everywhere Man" <alarminstall@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> > > news:1144702426.272614.144170@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >
> >> > What do you think about fining the centrals?
> >>
> >> If they don't have the resources to fine the company, how are they going
> >> to
> >> fine the CS? Actually, in today's world of third party monitoring, that
> >> CS
> >> has nothing to do with the end user or the physical system. They also
> >> don't
> >> have any contractual obligation to the end user or visa versa. The CS
> >> actually works for you, the alarm company. They are following procedures
> >> and
> >> specific instructions that the alarm company has laid out for them.
> >> (there
> >> are some laws and accepted practices they follow as far as verification
> >> calls etc.) Fining them will just increase the flow of paper work as it
> >> floats down stream and eventually end up where it belongs anyway, in the
> >> end
> >> users mail box.<
> >
> > I was talking more about this Canada deal. All I know about it is what
> > Jim posted, and was wondering if you had any knowledge of it.
> >
> >>
> >> Jim mentioned that they do
> >> > that somewhere in Canada, and said the rates dropped alot. I googled
> >> > for the Irv Fisher post but I couldn't find it.
> >>
> >> I am not familiar with Canada's situation at all, except some of this
> >> started in Toronto serveral years ago.<
> >
> > How did they enact/enforce this policy? Jim passed on information from
> > Irv that says it dropped the rate bigtime. I'd be interested in
> > learning more about it.
> >
> >> > We are lucky to have any communication with town officials outside of
> >> > campaign speeches. They prefer to complain than repair.
> >>
> >> You get out of it what you put into it. I have said, more than once, and
> >> possibly here in this group, that if you are in business, you must make
> >> politics a part of your business. If you do not,  people outside your
> >> business will be making your decisions for you. <
> >
> > I have no stomach or patience for politicians. There was a funny
> > picture taken of the Mayor and you can see me in the background with a
> > "what the hell is he babbling about" look on my face.
> >
> >> >
> >> > I refuse business on a regular basis. People with systems that were
> >> > installed when Christ was a corporal, and expect us to monitor that are
> >> > turned away.
> >> > Wackos who want a million motions are sent elsewhere. People who have 6
> >> > doors but only want to protect 3 are refused.
> >> > I don't need the headaches. You would turn them away too.
> >>
> >> And I do, but only after investigating their situation. Are they truely
> >> interested in security or are they just looking for an insurance break.
> >> Then
> >> it turns into an upgrade or a waste of my time. Many times this is
> >> accomplished right over the phone. <
> >
> > A perfect example is a couple living in a multi-million dollar home
> > looking for ONE fire detector just to get the insurance discount. I
> > told them to open the yellow pages and find someone who was just as
> > reckless about safety as they were.
> >
> >> > The problem is we have people who won't say no to them. A few of those
> >> > companies are in your state.
> >>
> >> Authorized dealers selling paper instead of security? <
> >
> > I am an authorized dealer for BRINKS up here but I'll be damned if
> > anyone tries to force me to play the numbers game. BRINKS hasn't put
> > the screws to dealers I know when it comes to production. Our average
> > system cost is well over $1,000.00. I can't remember the last time we
> > did a $99.00 deal. All joking aside I truly hate that shit.
> > I won't deny that there are dealers out there who throw in any system
> > just for the RMR, but you will find that it's not limited to just
> > authorized dealers.
> >>
> >>  They mail out the alarm system to the
> >> > customer and put them online with a central. It doesn't matter where
> >> > the customer lives either, as long as there is a mail
> >> > box and money they will receive an alarm system, and add to the false
> >> > alarm problem.
> >> > Shame on the centrals that monitor these people.
> >>
> >> Who are they? I wonder if they have a license. The gray interpetation
> >> that
> >> RLB slipped through is being fixed. I hope they have a license or on the
> >> other hand, it would be a good test for the new law. Maybe if he
> >> witnesses
> >> someone else going through it, he won't feel as though he is being picked
> >> on.<
> >
> > Companies like Protect America are mailing alarm systems to customers.
> > How many false alarms do you think they account for? Then you have
> > these DIY websites selling systems to anyone willing to pay the price.
> > bAss isn't the only one selling online, and license or no license the
> > monitored DIY system is inexcusable. Does the customer get what they
> > pay for? Yes. But we end up paying the price for that.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Very true. Shouldn't we at some point disconnect them?
> >>
> >> Of course, why allow them to drive up your alarm ratio. Are you
> >> downloading
> >> your panels or are you actually visiting the site and disconnecting the
> >> phone line? <
> >
> > Mind you I am answering in regards to in house accounts because once
> > BRINKS owns them I cannot shut them down, but on in-house accounts we
> > shut the panel down via download.
> >
> >> >
> >> > One business- 600+ false alarms. Do the police see that it's only one
> >> > business, or do they see 600 false alarms?
> >>
> >> Depends on how they are administrating their ordinance, if at all. In our
> >> city, after the second false alarm they receive a visit from the PD's
> >> alarm
> >> unit, after the third false alarm there is a $50 fine and they would need
> >> to
> >> attend a false alarm school, after the forth, it is $100 and after the
> >> fifth
> >> false alarm in a year and a $200 fine, that customer would have been on
> >> *limited* response, meaning the PD would go to holdup and emergency but
> >> no
> >> burgs until they could prove the system has been repaired or what ever
> >> corrective action was necessary. I teach that school on occassion. There
> >> is
> >> usually about 25-30 people in the classes. It is given quarterly. I find
> >> it
> >> interesting that an extremely small amount of people, over the years,
> >> have
> >> blamed the security company for their problem. I really thought it would
> >> be
> >> "blame the alarm guy". I was armed to hilt with statistics my first
> >> couple
> >> of classes but it didn't happen. I was suprised. It gave me a different
> >> opinion of what was really happening across the board. Most know what has
> >> caused their false alarm, accept the ordinance and are willing to correct
> >> the problem.<
> >
> > Very nice having an alarm unit at the local PD. What if the customer
> > refuses to attend the school?
> >
> >
> >>
> >>  They see 600 and our
> >> > industry takes a shot in the chops.
> >>
> >> Lack of knowledge will do it everytime. I will also tell you that when
> >> you
> >> have something that you don't want the public to know, you need to find a
> >> scapegoat. Politicians don't want to tell their voters that they are
> >> broke
> >> and cannot afford to provide police services. The alarm response is one
> >> of
> >> those cost cutting measures hence the 98% false alarm rate being used as
> >> a
> >> sales tool. In Palm Beach County, FL., PBSO told the commissioners that
> >> alarm response was costing them 1.2 million dollars a year. After
> >> research,
> >> it was proven to the commission that through the registration fees and
> >> the
> >> false alarm fines, the county was bringing in 1.7 million dollars. No
> >> fuzzy
> >> math there, pure profit. Their "no response" campaign went right out the
> >> window. The front page of their new ordinance, under a new sheriff,
> >> reads...Drafted by the Palm Beach County Sheriffs Office and the Alarm
> >> Association of Florida. Now that is a partnership.<
> >
> > I believe we have lack of effort/interest here. They like to complain
> > but they won't sit down to address the issue.
> >
> >>
> >> > Well we must have rogues galore up here.
> >>
> >> Let me know if you need a number to SIAC. This is what they do and they
> >> will
> >> come to you. They work nationally and have been involved in all the big
> >> FA
> >> locations, Salt Lake, LA, Dallas, etc etc etc. Lost a few but won many
> >> many.
> >> They are funded by CSAA, ADI, NBFAA (or whatever they are calling
> >> themselves
> >> today) and work hand and hand with the IACP. They used to go under the
> >> name
> >> CARE.<
> >
> > I contacted folks at IQ, the NYBFAA and the RAA. I was hoping to get
> > FARA involved as well. If we have an opportunity to get the government
> > to discuss alternatives to fines then we should jump at it.
> >
> >>
> >> > Where were my numbers wrong? I said that 99% of all SIGNALS are false
> >> > alarms.
> >> > I did NOT say that 99% of all alarm systems cause false alarms.
> >>
> >> That is what I get for skim reading, but I am glad you brought it back up
> >> because that is exactly what everyone hears, 99% of all systems false
> >> alarm.
> >> At least that is what the opponents would have the public believe. <
> >
> > And our opponents here are the responders. The cops want people to
> > believe 99% of all systems false. I made it clear to chamber members
> > that 99% of all signals are false.
> > I said our industry has ultimate control over the signals, control over
> > the quality of equipment used, and the extent of training.
> > I suggested members contract with licensed, bonded, and insured
> > companies that abide by IQ standards of installation. I handed out
> > samples of the Installer's & Customer's False Alarm Prevention
> > checklist from the NBFAA, and I discussed how the end user is also
> > responsible because all they care about is price. I talked about the 7
> > day no dispatch policy and how it is extremely affective. I mentioned
> > two way voice, and video monitoring.
> > It appears that some are reading this as me saying 99% of all alarm
> > systems are shit. I never said that, and I never would say that.
> > Maybe they should reread what I said, and then tell me exactly what I
> > was wrong about.
> >
> > And YOU are allowed to skim read. I have a soft spot for old folks and
> > know how the eyes play tricks on you. Norm is a MUCH MUCH MUCH younger
> > guy than you so he has no excuse. Poor bastard is probably still
> > pecking away at the keyboard emailing a hate letter to the paper. NORM!
> > Read it again ya friggin hot head. Doesn't it make you laugh when you
> > see these kids go off half-cocked, Bob?  :-)
> >>
> >> > It doesn't matter if there are 50,000 systems here or 5 what matters is
> >> > that 99 out of 100 SIGNALS being sent are false alarms. That's a 99%
> >> > false alarm rate.
> >>
> >> OK, the glass is either half empty or half full. It is and has been
> >> argued
> >> both ways and it depends on who's camp your in as to which way you are
> >> looking at it. Lets go back to the 100 systems and only one is having a
> >> problem. Lets say it falses 100 times. One dispatch, the problem was
> >> questionable and the other 99 times were false for whatever reason. 89%
> >> user
> >> error, 7% installation problems, 3% weather related. You are right,
> >> 99 % of the alarms generated from this alarm panel were false. Does that
> >> mean the city PD should consider a no dispatch policy? There are 100
> >> systems, they had 100 dispatches, 99% were false. Bottom line, if they
> >> don't
> >> have an ordinance and a registration process, they don't know the reality
> >> of
> >> the situation. When dealing with cities and counties, you must consider
> >> *all* involved. In this case, the 99 other systems, that did not have a
> >> problem, would suffer if someone pulled a knee jerk reaction to the
> >> problem
> >> child. <
> >
> > My point is the police (the people we rely on to respond) only see the
> > 99%.
> > Let's cut it down to 50% so we can take them to task for slow response
> > times.
> > The more accurate we become the faster they will respond. Here is what
> > I said our industry should do to cut the numbers down.
> > I said:
> > If the customer doesn't know how to use it we should teach them.
> > If it's faulty we should fix it.
> > If it's a chronic abuser we should shut them off.
> > If we don't do that then slap the fine on me.
> > Aint I just the big bad boogey man?
> >
> > I appreciate your opinions. You make valid points and welcome your
> > response, but if it ever gets out that I was involved in a serious
> > thread I'll have to shoot you.
> >
> >>
> >> > I'm sorry to cut this reply short, Bob. I have to run, but I would like
> >> > to continue this conversation later. Thanks for responding.
> >>
> >> Catch ya on the rebound...<
> >
> > Is that a comment on my weight? Saying I am shaped like a basketball?
> > Mom says I am not fat I am just jolly.
> > I hope someone whizzes in your senior center lunch.
> >
> >>
> >> > You're always an interesting read, but you're still not Worthy :-)
> >>
> >> Trustworthy better fits my style. :o} <
> >
> > But Frank still won't let you know.
> >
>
>
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