Re: "Blanks" kill actors

["Shaun Eli" <missingchild@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It's difficult in a thread responding to a piece of a thread to reply
in any coherent order and still quote the passages I want to respond
to.

First of all, my last set of comments was not directed at any one
respondent, so if someone else said he's against helmet laws, okay, it
was someone else.

Secondly, I did NOT NOT NOT say that gun laws don't work.  You took
what I said out of context.  What I said was that it was someone else's
faulty logic that said that since places with high crime rates had
stricter laws then their conclusion (their faulty conclusion) was that
the laws don't work.

Thirdly, I have no personal agenda.  I don't have a gun, and I am not
against them.

Fourthly, no, I wouldn't run a business at a loss.  But I don't think
too many people are cancelling their NY Times subscriptions because the
paper ran articles that covered stories they don't like.

If people really believe there's some vast conspiracy to keep some news
about guns from the public, well, I can't help that.

A few years ago, while doing research that some people on this thread
are claiming I've never done, I wrote to the NRA asking if they could
give me some examples of guns used to stop crimes.  They never wrote
back.  I'm pretty sure if you wrote to the anti-gun people and asked
for examples of guns used for bad purposes you'd get a vat of examples.
 But no, I haven't done that, and as I have no affiliation with any of
those organizations, I can't be sure.

Yes, requiring training will lower the suicide rate.  No, it won't stop
you from unlocking your trigger guard.  It may make you more likely to
use a trigger guard and keep your son or daughter from using the gun to
kill himself or herself.  Why?  Because until you take the course, you
might not think about potential suicides.  Just like all the seat belt
propaganda in drivers ed classes.  And, frankly, just like the idea of
taking away a drunk friend's car keys, or moving your car to block them
in so they can't drive home when they're drunk.  Something you might
not think of without the course.  If your son comes to you in tears and
tells you he's thinking about killing himself because his girlfriend
broke up with him, I hope you put the trigger lock on.

"I only care about things that effect me personally, or members of my
family, and my
kids. How you raise your kids is up to you. How I raise my kids is up
to me.
It's a simple concept. Stop believing parents are neglectful, or are
saints,
such as you. It's not for you, or any other State or Federal government
to
get partially involved in. "

Ouch.  You care not about anyone else?  There are a lot of words to
describe that.  I care about other people.  How you raise your kids IS
up to you, unless you do such a horrible job that we believe that the
state should step in and save your kids.  I don't believe any
particular parents are neglectful, or saints (excepting my parents, of
course, who are wonderful).  But when parents do things that endanger
their kids we, as a society, have some responsibility to save those
kids.  I also don't believe that people deserve to die because of their
stupidity, or due to a momentary lapse of reason.

Here are some general thoughts, and then I'll leave this alone:

I offer facts.  I offer suggestions, theories, proposed solutions.  I
state problems and I suggest solutions.

You offer "you don't know what you're talking about... Second
Amendment, Second Amendment, Second Amendment.  Laws don't stop
criminals so leave me alone.  I want my gun, don't try to take it
away."

So:

The U.S. has a higher gun murder rate, by far, than do Canada, England,
Ireland, France, Australia, Germany, Japan... do you agree we have a
problem?  I'm not asking the CAUSE of the problem, just if you think
this is okay or not.

Children find guns and there are accidents.  Do you have a solution to
this?  Do you want to reduce the deaths due to this?  Okay, how?  Or
not, since it's not your kids?

Do you think that since we regulate car ownership and use, it's
reasonable, or unreasonable, to apply similar standards to guns?  Or
should anybody, at any time, be allowed to buy and carry a weapon?  Or
should there be no rules on car use either?

Do you agree that just because a law is not 100% effective that does
NOT mean that it is useless?  Or should we abolish laws that don't
completely stop what they were intended to stop?