Re: Compass Software

["Frank Olson" <Please-use-the-email-links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"R.H.Campbell" <rh.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:PcWdnam1UJ0brMjeRVn-rA@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Look Frank,

I'm reminded of that scene in "Wallace and Grommit" where someone yells
"Duck!", and Wallace responds with "Where?" and almost gets flattened.

> I am not defending the guy, nor am I going to attack him for his
> statements.

No.  But you let him carry on with his unprovoked attacks.  I haven't flamed
him once in almost a year now.  I've simply been asking for proof for his
many statements of "supposed fact".

> I simply don't see it as useful for the newsgroup for half of the posts
> here to be simply "pissing in each others ears".

Interesting.  You say you recognize what Robert does and don't approve, but
you keep "out of it" and let him run rough-shod through the group.  Forget
ethics.  Forget the FAQ.  Perhaps we should change the name of it to
Alt.Bass.Burglar.Alarms.Tech .

> But I'm sure he's just as hard headed as the rest of us in this group. I
> too see the jabs and criticisms of our industry and there are times I wish
> he'd learn to use a little discretion in his responses.

But you don't *say* anything...

> But then if I was attacked at every turn, I might respond the same way.

Let's wait and see, shall we??  Let's see who "casts the first stone" (makes
the first derogatory remark) on his return (if he returns, that is).

> Sometimes he goes overboard, (even for me), but in a lot of his comments
> regarding our industry, a lot of the time, he is not too far off the
> mark....dealers who's only interest is in "flipping paper", dealers who
> unethically lock customer owned boards, and SOME of the"big box" companies
> and mass marketers who cheapen the whole market for all of us through
> atrocious and essentially dishonest dealer programs and shoddy,
> minimalistic installations. And I could go on and on...

Which you frequently do.  I agree that there are shady dealers out there,
but they are in fact far fewer than either you or RLB keep going on about.
I was working for Chubb when ADT introduced the "low down/zero down" systems
they were responding to a trend in many local markets that was putting
downward pressure on the actual install.  Chubb was always priced "high" and
it was tough selling a $4000.00 system in a residential market that averaged
$1500.00 for the same equipment.  Was Chubb "gouging"??  Are they still in
business??  How many of the local firms that we were competing against are
still around??  I know of six (and they all operate their own monitoring
stations, charge between $70 and $90 per hour and markup equipment by at
least 50%).  The rest are "history".


>
> He too falls victim to the all too easy tendency to generalize about
> problems and in the process make them seem more prevalent than they may be
> (and I am just as guilty of that too although I do try to be especially
> careful in this regard).

Careful??  Hardly!!  When Robert frequently tries to turn the discussion to
any of the aforementioned subjects, you're always quick to jump right in and
defend him.  Even though you know that many of the practices he rants
against aren't as prevalent as he (and you) make them out to be...


>
> And as for Jim, I don't question his willingness to answer DIY'ers, nor
> his willingness to respond, although I don't see most of them simply
> because for the moment, I have him blocked.

Then you've missed all the positives Jim's contributed in an effort to "weed
out" what you consider "hateful, ignorant crap".  Let me ask you...  How do
you consider some of Robert's responses??  The ones where he outright *LIES*
about people, or infers by innuendo that they're "on drugs", are
"pedophiles", and "child beaters"...  When have I ever seen you respond by
placing him on your "ignore list"??  Do four letter words in this group
offend you??  I think you're in the wrong industry if they do...  Perhaps
you should open a bookstore.

> But the bottom line is NOTHING that any of you guys say will change his
> approach. Make your statement of objection in a factual way and then let
> it go. Readers can form their own opinion of the worth of his statements
> or not. Factual criticism will always come across as more convincing than
> a diatribe of hateful comments.

Agreed.  But how do you deal with an individual that ignores all the rules,
posts passwords to security manufacturer's sites, sells *dealer* software to
anyone with a valid credit card??  Who ignores netiquette and ethics??  Who
"revels" in his ability to create mayhem and then turns around and accuses
the participants here that respond of being DIY unfriendly?


> But those same readers can clearly see the total LACK of worth of some of
> the more hostile statements you guys make in response, which only serves
> to make you look like "the bad guys". The whole thing comes across
> sometimes as a bunch of kids in a school yard fighting about trivia and in
> the process does nothing for our image as professionals.

Which is exactly why I've decided not to respond in this fashion.  I've
asked for proof of his statements.  Seems to me that's working about as well
as Jim's efforts...


>
> We can keep this thread going until the cows come home, but I absolutely
> refuse to engage in the escalating stupidity that goes on here. If you see
> that as wearing "rose coloured glasses" so be it. I stated my purpose in
> being part of this newsgroup some years ago, and it hasn't changed and
> won't change...
>
> So press on....

So let's "press on"...  Would you ignore shoddy work from one of your
employees??  Would you stand by and say nothing if they were engaged in the
kind of discussions Robert starts in front of your customers??  Have you
noticed how much more peaceful the group is when he's *not* around??  Have
you noticed how everyone here naturally follows a set of guidelines even
though a number of them have never even seen the Group's FAQ??  The
participants here are professionals.  They don't need some guy that runs a
mail-order store coming in to tell them they're all a bunch of crooks
because they "overcharge" for services.  Some of us actually run brick and
mortar security businesses, pay Provincial Sales Tax, Worker's Comp,
Insurance, Office, actually *stock* inventory, have four (or more) vehicles
on the road, etc.

I'm of the opinion that something has happened to Robert that he didn't
forsee (in other words, it's not a vacation or planned absence).  I've never
wished the man "ill", and any attempt at reasoning with him when we were on
friendly terms has always resulted in more flames from him.  That's what I
meant by you're wearing "rose coloured specs".  You frequently tend to
ignore what Robert's posted and focus on the response, which I must admit
looks like it goes "over-board" *in the moment*, but when put into the
context of "the big picture", perhaps isn't.  You've been here long enough
to know.