Re: Why Don't You Like DSC? (Addressed to those that don't.)

["Bob Worthy" <securinc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Mark Leuck" <m..leuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ouydnSb_n6gDyBnfRVn-2A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1115960518.576564.288950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > >
> > > Tech can't get into programming unless they know which keypad is
> > address 1
> > > which ends up being time consuming to figure THAT out,
> >
> > Well I guess if there were 7 keypads.......... but, I always make it
> > the keypad closest to the panel. Seems to make sense.
>
> Makes sense however often not the case
>
> > > then trying to
> > > explain how to keypad program
> >
> > Way .... way ..... wait a minute!!!!! ....... have you been talking
> > about KEYPAD programing all this time? What kind of dummy is going to
> > hand program a 20 or 30 zone system by hand?  If they do, they deserve
> > to run into and make as many mistakes as the can. How in the hell do
> > you check for errors? I haven't hand programed a direct downloadable
> > panel in so many years ....... I forget how long it's been. I can't
> > even remember the last time I looked in a programing manual, for that
> > matter.
>
> Whats so hard about it? I have no problems programming 20 or 30 zones on a
> Vista-20P or DSC 832 or Caddx NX-8, not going to happen with Napco which
is
> my point, Jim most people do NOT download panels which again is why Napco
is
> a blip on the screen in panel sales compared to other brands, they are all
> flat out easier to program.
>
> > So ........ then ......... rather than comparing hand programing, how
> > would you rate Napco compared to others with just downloading? Never
> > mind the banging together of two keypads to start a fire method.
>
> With just downloading Napco is slow on the connect, getting status etc
> compared to the others, it at least only downloads the information that
was
> changed. I still hate the day-glo looking software
>
> Thats why I always thought it was funny when people like RLB only talk
about
> downloading to change codes or maybe a couple of programming steps, would
I
> rather spend 10 to 15 minutes firing up the software, uploading the panel,
> making a change then disconnecting or would I rather spend maybe MAYBE 30
> seconds walking them through it at the keypad.
>
>
> > Even if I did try out any other panel, I'd NEVER try to hand program
> > it. Why would anyone? That's like buying a car and pushing it wherever
> > you want to go.
>
> Again with a panel like a DSC PC832 it's very easy to program via keypad,
> same with a GE Concord or Caddx
>
> > > Yup, many in this newsgroup don't seem to realize most techs program
> > via the
> > > keypad not downloader and I will not download a panel unless I know
> > how to
> > > keypad program it first
> >
> > To each his own. Perhaps for what you do, that's what's necessary. But
> > it'd be a cold day in hell before I'd hand program any direct
> > downloadable panel.
>
> Scenario #1: You are out riding a bicycle 40 miles from the house when you
> get a call from a customer who needs a code change or some simple program
> alteration before they go out of town in an hour, do you tell them you'll
be
> home in about 3 hours and download it or walk them through it?
>
> Scenario #2: You are spending 3 weeks in Brazil when a customer calls
asking
> for the same thing in Scenario #1 and you suddenly remember your laptop is
> still in Florida or even better you discover your download modem doesn't
> work worth crap with VOIP, do you tell the customer you'll be home in 3
> weeks to download it or walk them through it?
>
> Scenario #3: Customer's system has a zone trouble and because it's tying
up
> the phone line with trouble signals you can't connect, do you then walk
the
> customer through either deleting the zone temporarily/remove the report
code
> so you CAN download it or just tell em to kill power to the panel?
>
> Now you know why I won't download a panel without knowing how to program
it,
> see I've done Scenario #1 and #3 quite a number of times and someone else
in
> this newsgroup might discover scenario #2 rather quickly :)
>
> Besides, keypad program is designed into the panel, I see no reason why it
> shouldn't be done

I agree 100% with you on this one Mark. Although downloading is a great
convienience, I believe it has become an easy way out. Some people here are
obviously those that are actually doing the installations themselves and are
onsite throughout the install. Having a lap top on site and downloading the
panel, setting up the discriptors, sending signals etc. is ideal. However,
too many companies are sending out panels with lick'm and stick'm installers
that they down loaded, in bulk, at their office. Did the install match the
program? If you are not willing to give a lap top to all twenty installers,
it either takes two people (one on site and one at the office) or the
installer needs to come back to the office to download after the install is
done and hopefully everything goes right, then go back to train the
customer. Downloading a panel without ever seeing the job, in my opinion is
a sin! All of my techs learn to keypad program the panels we use. The CS
people know keypad functions to help over the phone for identifying
troubles, changeing codes etc. It is just plain faster and less hassle. It
may appear more technical but the customer doesn't care. They just want
their code changed. It gets done with one quick call, otherwise there are
three calls made. The initial, the download, and the verification call. At
installation, the panels are all set up for accepting downloading and all
signals are tested to central. Line seizure and release is verified. System
is totally functional and customer is trained prior to leaving the location.
Telco number that panel is connected to is documented. After the job is
completed, the panel is uploaded, back at the office, to check all
programming and is filed. We will do the alpha discriptors  and download
those once we know how the customer wants each identified when using the
alpha keypads. Naturally the huge systems are different, but they are still
downloaded while someone is on site. Downloading has its place but keypad
programming should not be thrown away just because people would rather do it
from their office.

Bob4Secur
>