Re: Do You Want To Know For Sure That You Are Going To Heaven? The reason some people don't know for sure if they are going to Heaven when they die is because they just don't know. The good news is that you can know for sure that you are going to Heaven wh

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax <dirk@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Tom wrote:

> "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:3cq00fF6pc9noU2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>>Tom wrote:
>>
>>>If this god actually exists, it seems to me that one is taking
>
> unnecessary
>
>>>chances by baiting him.
>>>
>>>Of course, if he doesn't exist, there's no problem.  But then there's no
>>>point in denouncing an imaginary creature as a psychotic genocidal
>
> maniac.
>
>>There's that 'exists' again, as if it's all black and white.
>
>
> Yes, yes, I know that a concept of a mountain, for example, exists in a
> different way than the mountain it represents.  In that way, a thing can
> exist in one sense and not exist in another.  However I think we are used to
> considering our psychotic genocidal maniacs to be a threat only when they're
> not hypothetical. That's when pissing them off is not a good idea. And if
> they *are* hypothetical, then they're not much point in speculating about
> their underlying nature.  Question: "How many angels fit on the head of a
> pin?"  Answer:  "It doesn't matter."

Are memes 'real' or hypothetical?
What happens if you piss of the wrong meme in the wrong place?

> Look, I snuck a peek at the last chapter of the bible and, though I hate to
> spoil it for you, everything works out OK in the end.  But keep on reading.

Not to my satisfaction.
I'm on the losing side in their text.

> You're still just in the Old Testament.  There are all sorts of little
> twists and subplots coming up.  I think you'll enjoy it.  Above all, just
> remind yourself from time to time that it's only a book.  YHVH is a
> character in a book.  It doesn't matter that he's a psychotic genocidal
> maniac.  Every good book these days has a psychotic genocidal maniac in it.
> The James Bond series gave us at least a dozen.  And Tom Harris gave us the
> lovable fiend Hannibal Lecter.  Now, admittedly, Dr. Lecter was not
> genocidal, but he's an awfully sympathetic chartacter for a psychotic
> maniac.

And Mein Kampf and Das Kapital are only books.
The Communist manifesto is only a flyer.

> In fact, Dr. Lecter is a beautiful example in this discussion of different
> forms of existence.  I have Harris' books on my shelves here at home.  I'm
> quite comfortable knowing that inside them is depicted a character who is a
> brilliant and deadly psychopathic serial killer.  I'm actually glad I have
> sucha character in my library.  I want him there and I want him to be as
> scary as he likes.  I have nothing but praise for his characterization.
>
> However, I think that I would be very nervous if Dr. Lecter was actually
> sitting on my couch.  I don't think I would want him there. But I sure as
> hell know better than to be rude to him.
>
>
>>Sure YHVH exists, just as other Gods exist and as Ouija
>>entities exist. And they are just as good or bad as you make
>>them and as strong as their followers.
>
>
> So it's not YHVH's psychotic genoicidal mania that's the real problem, since
> he's just a character in a book.
>
> The real problem is that you're afraid that his followers (who are *not*
> just characters in books) will be the same kind of psychotic genocidal
> maniacs that their god is.
>
> But Christians, by and large, do not think of themselves as the embodiment
> of YHVH.  God has not discussed with them the proper behavior for God.  God
> has instead chosen to discuss what is proper behavior for human beings.
> They are not expected to act like God.  They are expected to do what God has
> told them to do.
>
> Once in a while, just as in any population, there are going to be people who
> get more than a little carried away and become troublesome.  I don't think
> that will happen more often for Christians than it does for atheists.  Do
> you?

The only thing that really exists is information and pattern.
Matter and energy are only the dumb medium.
Reality is the interactions, and ideas, memes, achetypes have bigger effects in
the world than bulldozers. I doubt whether the bodycount from people being
crushed by them is even one hundred thousandth that of any of the big bits of
interactive information.

FFF
Dirk

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