Re: Fire Side Chat -- Fire Alarm Code Issue

["Frank Olson" <feolson@xxxxxxxxxx>]

"Robert L. Bass" <robertlbass@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Jr6dncO3cN4OuvDfRVn-jg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> A "listed FACP" can be a residential security system, but not the other
>> way around.
>
> You are wrong once again.  A burg/fire panel which bears a UL fire listing
> is indeed a FACP.

Gasp!  Really??  Does that mean that you're going to have to *design* a fire
alarm system for any customers that have expressed an interest in adding a
smoke alarm to their order?

Robert:  "Well, I'm sorry Mr. Smith, but I can't sell you just one smoke
alarm.  We're going to have to install one on every level, a heat detector
in the kitchen, another in the furnace room, laundry room, garage, and
you're going to have to install pull stations, strobes, and 10" red fire
bells as well.  I've got more bad news unfortunately.  The M1 Gold panel I
sold you isn't listed for fire so we're going to have to replace it with a
Napco 9600.  I know it doesn't have all the goodies the ELK panel has but
you really should have told me that you were thinking of adding fire
detection at the start...  Hello??    Hello??...."


>
>>> Separate subject -- I also quoted the part where a UL listing is
>>> required for the software which my company wrote for Edwards.  You might
>>> recall the discussion.
>>
>> Yes.  I see the reference in NFPA.  What I fail to see (and still don't)
>> is any reference to it being UL listed in either the "help file" or the
>> program...
>
> I wrote the help file and helped design the app.  My partners wrote the
> app. When I finished my work the app as a whole, including the integral
> help system, was submitted to UL.  It passed on the first round.

Where in the "app" does it say it's "UL Listed"??  If you "helped design it"
(as you've indicated you have) you should be able to tell me where fairly
easily.  You keep "dancing around" the issue though.  If the help file is
"UL Listed" it should say so in the "help about" section somewhere, but
there is absolutely no mention of UL anywhere.


>
> The help system is as essential to the app as the installation manual is
> to the panel itself.  Just as the installation manual is UL listed, so is
> the downloading software which we wrote.
>
> The UL listing was provided to Edwards by UL after we finished our work
> and I do not have (nor do I need) a copy of the certificate.  If you want
> to see the listing, order the software from Edwards or research it through
> UL.

I have the software.  I've reviewed the help file.  The FireShield panels
are crap and so is the software.  The help system is "Mickey Mouse" (your
childish references only make it more so), and available off the shelf from
any software company (in fact you used it for your recently departed FAQ
site).  In fact, the whole kit and kaboodle is the laughing stock of this
Group (and that's not a flame, but an observation).  If I was in any way
associated with Edwards, I'd have distanced myself from the help system (or
have you rewrite it at your expense) when I first saw it.  What you
accomplished was nothing to crow about.   My son could have done a better,
far more professional job (and for considerably less than "your company"
probably charged).

There is *no* discernable* reference to UL (or ULC) on any of the materials
I have here (other than the control panel itself and I'll never buy one).
Edwards makes use of the ULC mark in the literature that comes with the fire
alarm panel and the brochures available from any of the distributors
flogging the thing, but neither the manual or the brochures are themselves
"ULC listed".

In fact, FireLite's, Mircom's, Simplex's (just about any manufacturers you
care to mention) manuals aren't ULC (or UL) listed either.  Where you get
these ideas from is beyond me.


>
>> If you'd be so good as to point out where
>> it *is* listed, I'd be much obliged and will
>> promptly "shut-the-flock-up".
>
> The UL listing information is included in the printed materials supplied
> with the software.  I'm not sure but I thought Leuck said he has a copy.
> It's questionable whether he is honest enough to confirm what I've said
> though.

I downloaded the software.  There's no mention of "UL" in the EULA either.