Re: Survey: Home Control Software

["John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanx for all the information. I need to prepare my home for selling
over the next month or so and will not have the time I would like to
have for some time.

"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:477530c7.108836468@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Let me search through some old files. I know that I had
> documentation for at
> least one of the TW523 serial adapters at one time. In effect, the
> 1132B in
> serial mode has a built-in RS232 adapter. In TW523 mode, it uses the
> standard TW523 TTL interface.
>
> I added the CM11A VB code back to my web page <davehouston.org>.
> Scroll to
> the bottom.
>
> There are numerous and inexpensive USB-Serial adapters that will let
> you
> handle long runs (although maybe not as long as true RS232 with ±12V
> levels). This one from ByteRunner only costs $9 and has worked with
> everything I've tried it with although I don't have any 100-200'
> cables to
> test long runs.
>
> http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/product_name=Y-105/user-id=/password=/exchange=/exact_match=exact
>
> If you stick with X-10, you should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB
> gizmos.
> They're a "bigger hammer" type solution and I prefer to solve the
> underlying
> attenuation or noise problems, which you should be able to do in a
> new
> house, but...
>
> http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/xtb_files.htm
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Thanx for that!
>>
>>I would have used my own TW523 with serial port but I could never
>>find
>>any protocol docs for it years ago.
>>
>>This is one of the problems with this stuff. The serial ports are
>>vanishing and USB is coming in. Try running that 100 feet...LOL This
>>means you have a computer within a few feet of the transmitter. I
>>have
>>runs of wiring from my computer to the service panel across a bridge
>>and to a X10 unit over 200' of wire in my home now. Trouble with the
>>service panel in the garage in a backsplit!
>>
>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:4774daa5.86785640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> I'm familiar with "wall wart" for power adapters but your
>>> inclusion
>>> of
>>> "dimmer" confused me. I wanted to make sure you weren't talking
>>> about some
>>> rare, esoteric gizmo.
>>>
>>> I've got sample VB code for the CM11A somewhere - it used to be on
>>> my web
>>> page but I removed it some time ago. As I recall it was in two
>>> versions -
>>> one using direct communications and one using the communications
>>> bridge
>>> documented in X-10's help file for their CM11A software. My
>>> examples
>>> were
>>> just for fundamental stuff, not for downloading timers and macros.
>>>
>>> You might want to consider Smarthome's 1132B. It has a simple
>>> ASCII
>>> protocol.
>>>
>>>     http://www.smarthome.com/1132b.html
>>>
>>> Scroll to the bottom and there's a link to a Programming Manual.
>>>
>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wall wart is a term commonly used for AC/DC adapter/battery
>>>>eliminators. I may have used it incorrectly but yes. the plug in
>>>>lamp
>>>>dimmers/switches or appliance units that plug into the wall
>>>>receptical.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have no interst in writing code for DOS. I want to get the
>>>>system
>>>>off DOS.
>>>>
>>>>I figured if I could get decent drivers for the various units I
>>>>could
>>>>write my own code using Visual Basic and write my logic using
>>>>same.
>>>>once the subroutines are written it can't be any more cumbersome
>>>>than
>>>>the current HC2000 language I am using now and would give me any
>>>>option I could think of instead of being formalized into a fixed
>>>>language coommand structure. I have also maxed out the capabilties
>>>>of
>>>>the programme in subroutine calls. Quite an idea with only
>>>>pulldown
>>>>verb,  unit and subroutine names but not my style. Saves on typos
>>>>though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:4774265f.40636281@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>I forgot the smiley after my remark about all the time you'll
>>>>>have.
>>>>>;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Take a look at PureBasic. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux,
>>>>> Mac)
>>>>> and only
>>>>> costs $99 (you get all three platforms). It won't do DOS but it
>>>>> will
>>>>> do
>>>>> console apps. It's easy to learn and use but does take a lot of
>>>>> coding since
>>>>> you need to handle all the things that mose of the "visual"
>>>>> languages handle
>>>>> for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://www.purebasic.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to stick with DOS, PowerBasic (was TurboBasic when
>>>>> Borland
>>>>> marketed it) still sells a DOS version.
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://powerbasic.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Insteon has an SDK but it costs $200 and you don't get much
>>>>> beyond
>>>>> a
>>>>> bit of
>>>>> hardware and docs. I do not recommend it to anyone other than
>>>>> commercial
>>>>> operations and even they should buy an even more expensive
>>>>> package
>>>>> that
>>>>> offers more hand-holding.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's an oft reported problem that I named "endless dim
>>>>> syndrome"
>>>>> but it
>>>>> only occurs with RF transceivers. It's most prevalent with
>>>>> TM751s
>>>>> but can
>>>>> occur with RR501s. It's caused by the powerline radiating the
>>>>> 120kHz
>>>>> bursts
>>>>> which inductively couples back into the superregenerative RF
>>>>> receiver in the
>>>>> transceivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some phase couplers are know to create and/or feed "powerline
>>>>> storms" where
>>>>> the line is flooded with continuous commands. However, I don't
>>>>> recall
>>>>> Dim/Bright being one of the codes reported. The storms do
>>>>> however
>>>>> monopolize
>>>>> the powerline, blocking all other commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meaning of the term "wall wart dimmer" eludes me. Do you
>>>>> mean
>>>>> a
>>>>> plug-in
>>>>> lamp module?
>>>>>
>>>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL. I doubt I will have lots of time to troubleshoot. I am
>>>>>>building
>>>>>>the home, mostly myself. This wasn't intentional but it is hard
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>find decent labout at a realistic price around that area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The worst problem I have is my sunrise halogen that I
>>>>>>progressively
>>>>>>briighten on work mornings. Some days the wall wart dimmer will
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>shut off and I have to unplug it. I have tried different units
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>the same success. I suspected I was pushing the unit's heat
>>>>>>rating
>>>>>>(300W) and got a 200Watt bulb with the same result. Basically
>>>>>>there
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>nothing else on the circuit and it appears to work fine in the
>>>>>>another
>>>>>>circuit. I have checked all the electrical connections and
>>>>>>suspect
>>>>>>some kind of resonant tuned circuit in the cable length. My
>>>>>>TW523
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>at the service panel for centralization with a 100' RS-232
>>>>>>connection
>>>>>>to the computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Basically I would also like to get something that will run on a
>>>>>>Windoze machine with network access to the beast. Currently I
>>>>>>can
>>>>>>only
>>>>>>run in DOS and I cannot for the life of me remember how to get
>>>>>>all
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>NIC drivers working. Win 3.11 used to set them all up for you
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>then
>>>>>>you just dropped the GUI. I wrote my own code for the CM-11 but
>>>>>>can't
>>>>>>get through some of the protocol spec published. AFAIC it just
>>>>>>doesn't
>>>>>>work in spots. On a power blink it needs to be accessed and
>>>>>>relaod
>>>>>>macros or something (been a long time now) and haven't been able
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>make it talk that part of it. I am sure there is all kinds of
>>>>>>code
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>drivers out there that are good for an old hack like me to boost
>>>>>>his
>>>>>>starting point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is code writing for hacks supported with the Insteon i/f also?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:4773e7e2.24639250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> There's a "gotcha" with the gradual replacement scenario. Each
>>>>>>> Insteon
>>>>>>> device is two-way and the transmitters attenuate X-10 signals
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> manner as two-way X-10 devices do. The more Insteon devices,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> better the
>>>>>>> Insteon reliability but the bigger the hit on X-10
>>>>>>> reliability.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> depends
>>>>>>> on how many total devices you have but at some point you'll
>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> you need to convert all remaining X-10 devices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that said, most of the people using Insteon report good
>>>>>>> reliability
>>>>>>> although some report problems. While Insteon is subject to the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> signal
>>>>>>> attenuators and noise sources as X-10, filters will fix most
>>>>>>> problems as
>>>>>>> they do for X-10. There are some persistent complainers on the
>>>>>>> Insteon forum
>>>>>>> but I suspect most are from people who really do not
>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think an ESM1 signal meter is almost a necessity. It lets
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> X-10 and
>>>>>>> Insteon signals (although it cannot interpret Insteon) and
>>>>>>> measure
>>>>>>> relative
>>>>>>> amplitudes. It can eliminate most of the guesswork.
>>>>>>> AutomatedOutlet.com will
>>>>>>> even loan you one - knowing full well that 98% (my WAG) of the
>>>>>>> loaners turn
>>>>>>> into purchases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=463&cat=0&page=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Insteon prices have edged up plus they have apparently
>>>>>>> discontinued
>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>> their lower priced "value" lines but I think it is still the
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> choice for
>>>>>>> new installations where the user doesn't want to spend far
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> hard-wired low voltage control. However, someone who has a
>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>> X-10
>>>>>>> investment and understands the ins and outs is probably better
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> sticking
>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given that you've had X-10 problems, you may continue to have
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> Insteon. You probably need to run the the problems down before
>>>>>>> deciding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whichever way you go, as you move into the new house, deploy
>>>>>>> switches and
>>>>>>> modules in sub-groups so you can find and fix problems before
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> have a a
>>>>>>> large number of devices. Troubleshooting a limited number of
>>>>>>> devices
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> easier to manage. You'll have lots of time to troubleshoot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I was not aware of the RF missing factor on these devices. You
>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>correct on the overhype. They discuss this technique in depth
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>give
>>>>>>>>the impression all Insteon devices are "fully equipped" but
>>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>>examining their remote units, the RF is never mentioned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The units are quite pricey and the slow replacement of X10
>>>>>>>>devices
>>>>>>>>seems attractive. Most of mine have been removed from service
>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>several reasons
>>>>>>>>- I am building a new home and recovering units for the move.
>>>>>>>>- many operated unreliabily or not at all despite two
>>>>>>>>powerline
>>>>>>>>signal
>>>>>>>>bridges and neighbour blocking devices.
>>>>>>>>- too may light left on for days is costing me energy money on
>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>bill, despite software to shut them down a few times a day for
>>>>>>>>"just
>>>>>>>>in case" scenarios.
>>>>>>>>- too many "all lights on" in the middle of the night from
>>>>>>>>wireless
>>>>>>>>receivers (I think)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I short the three of four dozen units and 15 years of trying
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>perfect the system has resulted in a complete distrust for X10
>>>>>>>>units
>>>>>>>>and there is only a few spots where flakey can be useful. Soon
>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>>>retire and won't need my "sunrise" algorythm for a 300W
>>>>>>>>halogen
>>>>>>>>anymore either. I was hoping Inteon may be an answer for a
>>>>>>>>technology
>>>>>>>>hungry kid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:4775911c.2425218@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Unless you're using something that receives RF directly, you
>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>> see the
>>>>>>>>> RF messages. You only see powerline messages so the
>>>>>>>>> incorrect
>>>>>>>>> command has
>>>>>>>>> already made it to the powerline before your software is
>>>>>>>>> aware
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even if your software does receive direct RF messages, there
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> seldom
>>>>>>>>> collisions between RF codes and when there are, the result
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> garbage -
>>>>>>>>> there's no possible way to sort out what the two colliding
>>>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>> The RF messages do contain data which allows a receiver to
>>>>>>>>> check
>>>>>>>>> validity
>>>>>>>>> but any corruption will merely cause an invalid message it
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>>>> one message to be transformed into another. IOW, corrupt RF
>>>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> make it to the powerline from any X-10 transceiver.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bream Rockmetteller <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>"bad"
>>>>>>>>>>message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>strange
>>>>>>>>>>manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10"
>>>>>>>>>>instead
>>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>"turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll  add a
>>>>>>>>>>script
>>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>"Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you
>>>>>>>>>>receive
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the
>>>>>>>>>>kitchen
>>>>>>>>>>lights."
>>>>>>>>>>That way, even if the switch or the receiver or some random
>>>>>>>>>>noise
>>>>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>>>>caused the message to go bad, the software will re-transmit
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>correct
>>>>>>>>>>message.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I hope this helps...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
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