Re: Survey: Home Control Software

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

Let me search through some old files. I know that I had documentation for at
least one of the TW523 serial adapters at one time. In effect, the 1132B in
serial mode has a built-in RS232 adapter. In TW523 mode, it uses the
standard TW523 TTL interface.

I added the CM11A VB code back to my web page <davehouston.org>. Scroll to
the bottom.

There are numerous and inexpensive USB-Serial adapters that will let you
handle long runs (although maybe not as long as true RS232 with ±12V
levels). This one from ByteRunner only costs $9 and has worked with
everything I've tried it with although I don't have any 100-200' cables to
test long runs.

http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/product_name=Y-105/user-id=/password=/exchange=/exact_match=exact

If you stick with X-10, you should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB gizmos.
They're a "bigger hammer" type solution and I prefer to solve the underlying
attenuation or noise problems, which you should be able to do in a new
house, but...

http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/xtb_files.htm

"John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Thanx for that!
>
>I would have used my own TW523 with serial port but I could never find
>any protocol docs for it years ago.
>
>This is one of the problems with this stuff. The serial ports are
>vanishing and USB is coming in. Try running that 100 feet...LOL This
>means you have a computer within a few feet of the transmitter. I have
>runs of wiring from my computer to the service panel across a bridge
>and to a X10 unit over 200' of wire in my home now. Trouble with the
>service panel in the garage in a backsplit!
>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:4774daa5.86785640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> I'm familiar with "wall wart" for power adapters but your inclusion
>> of
>> "dimmer" confused me. I wanted to make sure you weren't talking
>> about some
>> rare, esoteric gizmo.
>>
>> I've got sample VB code for the CM11A somewhere - it used to be on
>> my web
>> page but I removed it some time ago. As I recall it was in two
>> versions -
>> one using direct communications and one using the communications
>> bridge
>> documented in X-10's help file for their CM11A software. My examples
>> were
>> just for fundamental stuff, not for downloading timers and macros.
>>
>> You might want to consider Smarthome's 1132B. It has a simple ASCII
>> protocol.
>>
>>     http://www.smarthome.com/1132b.html
>>
>> Scroll to the bottom and there's a link to a Programming Manual.
>>
>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>Wall wart is a term commonly used for AC/DC adapter/battery
>>>eliminators. I may have used it incorrectly but yes. the plug in
>>>lamp
>>>dimmers/switches or appliance units that plug into the wall
>>>receptical.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have no interst in writing code for DOS. I want to get the system
>>>off DOS.
>>>
>>>I figured if I could get decent drivers for the various units I
>>>could
>>>write my own code using Visual Basic and write my logic using same.
>>>once the subroutines are written it can't be any more cumbersome
>>>than
>>>the current HC2000 language I am using now and would give me any
>>>option I could think of instead of being formalized into a fixed
>>>language coommand structure. I have also maxed out the capabilties
>>>of
>>>the programme in subroutine calls. Quite an idea with only pulldown
>>>verb,  unit and subroutine names but not my style. Saves on typos
>>>though.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>news:4774265f.40636281@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>I forgot the smiley after my remark about all the time you'll have.
>>>>;)
>>>>
>>>> Take a look at PureBasic. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux,
>>>> Mac)
>>>> and only
>>>> costs $99 (you get all three platforms). It won't do DOS but it
>>>> will
>>>> do
>>>> console apps. It's easy to learn and use but does take a lot of
>>>> coding since
>>>> you need to handle all the things that mose of the "visual"
>>>> languages handle
>>>> for you.
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.purebasic.com/
>>>>
>>>> If you want to stick with DOS, PowerBasic (was TurboBasic when
>>>> Borland
>>>> marketed it) still sells a DOS version.
>>>>
>>>>     http://powerbasic.com/
>>>>
>>>> Insteon has an SDK but it costs $200 and you don't get much beyond
>>>> a
>>>> bit of
>>>> hardware and docs. I do not recommend it to anyone other than
>>>> commercial
>>>> operations and even they should buy an even more expensive package
>>>> that
>>>> offers more hand-holding.
>>>>
>>>> There's an oft reported problem that I named "endless dim
>>>> syndrome"
>>>> but it
>>>> only occurs with RF transceivers. It's most prevalent with TM751s
>>>> but can
>>>> occur with RR501s. It's caused by the powerline radiating the
>>>> 120kHz
>>>> bursts
>>>> which inductively couples back into the superregenerative RF
>>>> receiver in the
>>>> transceivers.
>>>>
>>>> Some phase couplers are know to create and/or feed "powerline
>>>> storms" where
>>>> the line is flooded with continuous commands. However, I don't
>>>> recall
>>>> Dim/Bright being one of the codes reported. The storms do however
>>>> monopolize
>>>> the powerline, blocking all other commands.
>>>>
>>>> The meaning of the term "wall wart dimmer" eludes me. Do you mean
>>>> a
>>>> plug-in
>>>> lamp module?
>>>>
>>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>LOL. I doubt I will have lots of time to troubleshoot. I am
>>>>>building
>>>>>the home, mostly myself. This wasn't intentional but it is hard to
>>>>>find decent labout at a realistic price around that area.
>>>>>
>>>>>The worst problem I have is my sunrise halogen that I
>>>>>progressively
>>>>>briighten on work mornings. Some days the wall wart dimmer will
>>>>>not
>>>>>shut off and I have to unplug it. I have tried different units
>>>>>with
>>>>>the same success. I suspected I was pushing the unit's heat rating
>>>>>(300W) and got a 200Watt bulb with the same result. Basically
>>>>>there
>>>>>is
>>>>>nothing else on the circuit and it appears to work fine in the
>>>>>another
>>>>>circuit. I have checked all the electrical connections and suspect
>>>>>some kind of resonant tuned circuit in the cable length. My TW523
>>>>>is
>>>>>at the service panel for centralization with a 100' RS-232
>>>>>connection
>>>>>to the computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Basically I would also like to get something that will run on a
>>>>>Windoze machine with network access to the beast. Currently I can
>>>>>only
>>>>>run in DOS and I cannot for the life of me remember how to get all
>>>>>the
>>>>>NIC drivers working. Win 3.11 used to set them all up for you and
>>>>>then
>>>>>you just dropped the GUI. I wrote my own code for the CM-11 but
>>>>>can't
>>>>>get through some of the protocol spec published. AFAIC it just
>>>>>doesn't
>>>>>work in spots. On a power blink it needs to be accessed and relaod
>>>>>macros or something (been a long time now) and haven't been able
>>>>>to
>>>>>make it talk that part of it. I am sure there is all kinds of code
>>>>>and
>>>>>drivers out there that are good for an old hack like me to boost
>>>>>his
>>>>>starting point.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is code writing for hacks supported with the Insteon i/f also?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>news:4773e7e2.24639250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> There's a "gotcha" with the gradual replacement scenario. Each
>>>>>> Insteon
>>>>>> device is two-way and the transmitters attenuate X-10 signals in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> manner as two-way X-10 devices do. The more Insteon devices, the
>>>>>> better the
>>>>>> Insteon reliability but the bigger the hit on X-10 reliability.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> depends
>>>>>> on how many total devices you have but at some point you'll
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> you need to convert all remaining X-10 devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that said, most of the people using Insteon report good
>>>>>> reliability
>>>>>> although some report problems. While Insteon is subject to the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> signal
>>>>>> attenuators and noise sources as X-10, filters will fix most
>>>>>> problems as
>>>>>> they do for X-10. There are some persistent complainers on the
>>>>>> Insteon forum
>>>>>> but I suspect most are from people who really do not understand
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think an ESM1 signal meter is almost a necessity. It lets you
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> X-10 and
>>>>>> Insteon signals (although it cannot interpret Insteon) and
>>>>>> measure
>>>>>> relative
>>>>>> amplitudes. It can eliminate most of the guesswork.
>>>>>> AutomatedOutlet.com will
>>>>>> even loan you one - knowing full well that 98% (my WAG) of the
>>>>>> loaners turn
>>>>>> into purchases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=463&cat=0&page=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Insteon prices have edged up plus they have apparently
>>>>>> discontinued
>>>>>> some of
>>>>>> their lower priced "value" lines but I think it is still the
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> choice for
>>>>>> new installations where the user doesn't want to spend far more
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> hard-wired low voltage control. However, someone who has a large
>>>>>> X-10
>>>>>> investment and understands the ins and outs is probably better
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> sticking
>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that you've had X-10 problems, you may continue to have
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Insteon. You probably need to run the the problems down before
>>>>>> deciding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whichever way you go, as you move into the new house, deploy
>>>>>> switches and
>>>>>> modules in sub-groups so you can find and fix problems before
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> have a a
>>>>>> large number of devices. Troubleshooting a limited number of
>>>>>> devices
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> easier to manage. You'll have lots of time to troubleshoot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was not aware of the RF missing factor on these devices. You
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>correct on the overhype. They discuss this technique in depth
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>give
>>>>>>>the impression all Insteon devices are "fully equipped" but when
>>>>>>>examining their remote units, the RF is never mentioned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The units are quite pricey and the slow replacement of X10
>>>>>>>devices
>>>>>>>seems attractive. Most of mine have been removed from service
>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>several reasons
>>>>>>>- I am building a new home and recovering units for the move.
>>>>>>>- many operated unreliabily or not at all despite two powerline
>>>>>>>signal
>>>>>>>bridges and neighbour blocking devices.
>>>>>>>- too may light left on for days is costing me energy money on
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>bill, despite software to shut them down a few times a day for
>>>>>>>"just
>>>>>>>in case" scenarios.
>>>>>>>- too many "all lights on" in the middle of the night from
>>>>>>>wireless
>>>>>>>receivers (I think)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I short the three of four dozen units and 15 years of trying to
>>>>>>>perfect the system has resulted in a complete distrust for X10
>>>>>>>units
>>>>>>>and there is only a few spots where flakey can be useful. Soon I
>>>>>>>will
>>>>>>>retire and won't need my "sunrise" algorythm for a 300W halogen
>>>>>>>anymore either. I was hoping Inteon may be an answer for a
>>>>>>>technology
>>>>>>>hungry kid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:4775911c.2425218@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unless you're using something that receives RF directly, you
>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>> see the
>>>>>>>> RF messages. You only see powerline messages so the incorrect
>>>>>>>> command has
>>>>>>>> already made it to the powerline before your software is aware
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if your software does receive direct RF messages, there
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> seldom
>>>>>>>> collisions between RF codes and when there are, the result is
>>>>>>>> garbage -
>>>>>>>> there's no possible way to sort out what the two colliding
>>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>> The RF messages do contain data which allows a receiver to
>>>>>>>> check
>>>>>>>> validity
>>>>>>>> but any corruption will merely cause an invalid message it
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>>> one message to be transformed into another. IOW, corrupt RF
>>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> make it to the powerline from any X-10 transceiver.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bream Rockmetteller <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received a
>>>>>>>>>"bad"
>>>>>>>>>message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in a
>>>>>>>>>strange
>>>>>>>>>manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10"
>>>>>>>>>instead
>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>"turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll  add a script
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>"Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you
>>>>>>>>>receive
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the kitchen
>>>>>>>>>lights."
>>>>>>>>>That way, even if the switch or the receiver or some random
>>>>>>>>>noise
>>>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>>>caused the message to go bad, the software will re-transmit
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>correct
>>>>>>>>>message.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I hope this helps...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>
>>
>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>


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