Re: Survey: Home Control Software

["John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanx for that!

I would have used my own TW523 with serial port but I could never find
any protocol docs for it years ago.

This is one of the problems with this stuff. The serial ports are
vanishing and USB is coming in. Try running that 100 feet...LOL This
means you have a computer within a few feet of the transmitter. I have
runs of wiring from my computer to the service panel across a bridge
and to a X10 unit over 200' of wire in my home now. Trouble with the
service panel in the garage in a backsplit!

"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4774daa5.86785640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> I'm familiar with "wall wart" for power adapters but your inclusion
> of
> "dimmer" confused me. I wanted to make sure you weren't talking
> about some
> rare, esoteric gizmo.
>
> I've got sample VB code for the CM11A somewhere - it used to be on
> my web
> page but I removed it some time ago. As I recall it was in two
> versions -
> one using direct communications and one using the communications
> bridge
> documented in X-10's help file for their CM11A software. My examples
> were
> just for fundamental stuff, not for downloading timers and macros.
>
> You might want to consider Smarthome's 1132B. It has a simple ASCII
> protocol.
>
>     http://www.smarthome.com/1132b.html
>
> Scroll to the bottom and there's a link to a Programming Manual.
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Wall wart is a term commonly used for AC/DC adapter/battery
>>eliminators. I may have used it incorrectly but yes. the plug in
>>lamp
>>dimmers/switches or appliance units that plug into the wall
>>receptical.
>>
>>
>>I have no interst in writing code for DOS. I want to get the system
>>off DOS.
>>
>>I figured if I could get decent drivers for the various units I
>>could
>>write my own code using Visual Basic and write my logic using same.
>>once the subroutines are written it can't be any more cumbersome
>>than
>>the current HC2000 language I am using now and would give me any
>>option I could think of instead of being formalized into a fixed
>>language coommand structure. I have also maxed out the capabilties
>>of
>>the programme in subroutine calls. Quite an idea with only pulldown
>>verb,  unit and subroutine names but not my style. Saves on typos
>>though.
>>
>>
>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:4774265f.40636281@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>I forgot the smiley after my remark about all the time you'll have.
>>>;)
>>>
>>> Take a look at PureBasic. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux,
>>> Mac)
>>> and only
>>> costs $99 (you get all three platforms). It won't do DOS but it
>>> will
>>> do
>>> console apps. It's easy to learn and use but does take a lot of
>>> coding since
>>> you need to handle all the things that mose of the "visual"
>>> languages handle
>>> for you.
>>>
>>>     http://www.purebasic.com/
>>>
>>> If you want to stick with DOS, PowerBasic (was TurboBasic when
>>> Borland
>>> marketed it) still sells a DOS version.
>>>
>>>     http://powerbasic.com/
>>>
>>> Insteon has an SDK but it costs $200 and you don't get much beyond
>>> a
>>> bit of
>>> hardware and docs. I do not recommend it to anyone other than
>>> commercial
>>> operations and even they should buy an even more expensive package
>>> that
>>> offers more hand-holding.
>>>
>>> There's an oft reported problem that I named "endless dim
>>> syndrome"
>>> but it
>>> only occurs with RF transceivers. It's most prevalent with TM751s
>>> but can
>>> occur with RR501s. It's caused by the powerline radiating the
>>> 120kHz
>>> bursts
>>> which inductively couples back into the superregenerative RF
>>> receiver in the
>>> transceivers.
>>>
>>> Some phase couplers are know to create and/or feed "powerline
>>> storms" where
>>> the line is flooded with continuous commands. However, I don't
>>> recall
>>> Dim/Bright being one of the codes reported. The storms do however
>>> monopolize
>>> the powerline, blocking all other commands.
>>>
>>> The meaning of the term "wall wart dimmer" eludes me. Do you mean
>>> a
>>> plug-in
>>> lamp module?
>>>
>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>LOL. I doubt I will have lots of time to troubleshoot. I am
>>>>building
>>>>the home, mostly myself. This wasn't intentional but it is hard to
>>>>find decent labout at a realistic price around that area.
>>>>
>>>>The worst problem I have is my sunrise halogen that I
>>>>progressively
>>>>briighten on work mornings. Some days the wall wart dimmer will
>>>>not
>>>>shut off and I have to unplug it. I have tried different units
>>>>with
>>>>the same success. I suspected I was pushing the unit's heat rating
>>>>(300W) and got a 200Watt bulb with the same result. Basically
>>>>there
>>>>is
>>>>nothing else on the circuit and it appears to work fine in the
>>>>another
>>>>circuit. I have checked all the electrical connections and suspect
>>>>some kind of resonant tuned circuit in the cable length. My TW523
>>>>is
>>>>at the service panel for centralization with a 100' RS-232
>>>>connection
>>>>to the computer.
>>>>
>>>>Basically I would also like to get something that will run on a
>>>>Windoze machine with network access to the beast. Currently I can
>>>>only
>>>>run in DOS and I cannot for the life of me remember how to get all
>>>>the
>>>>NIC drivers working. Win 3.11 used to set them all up for you and
>>>>then
>>>>you just dropped the GUI. I wrote my own code for the CM-11 but
>>>>can't
>>>>get through some of the protocol spec published. AFAIC it just
>>>>doesn't
>>>>work in spots. On a power blink it needs to be accessed and relaod
>>>>macros or something (been a long time now) and haven't been able
>>>>to
>>>>make it talk that part of it. I am sure there is all kinds of code
>>>>and
>>>>drivers out there that are good for an old hack like me to boost
>>>>his
>>>>starting point.
>>>>
>>>>Is code writing for hacks supported with the Insteon i/f also?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:4773e7e2.24639250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> There's a "gotcha" with the gradual replacement scenario. Each
>>>>> Insteon
>>>>> device is two-way and the transmitters attenuate X-10 signals in
>>>>> the
>>>>> same
>>>>> manner as two-way X-10 devices do. The more Insteon devices, the
>>>>> better the
>>>>> Insteon reliability but the bigger the hit on X-10 reliability.
>>>>> It
>>>>> depends
>>>>> on how many total devices you have but at some point you'll
>>>>> probably
>>>>> find
>>>>> you need to convert all remaining X-10 devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> All that said, most of the people using Insteon report good
>>>>> reliability
>>>>> although some report problems. While Insteon is subject to the
>>>>> same
>>>>> signal
>>>>> attenuators and noise sources as X-10, filters will fix most
>>>>> problems as
>>>>> they do for X-10. There are some persistent complainers on the
>>>>> Insteon forum
>>>>> but I suspect most are from people who really do not understand
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think an ESM1 signal meter is almost a necessity. It lets you
>>>>> see
>>>>> X-10 and
>>>>> Insteon signals (although it cannot interpret Insteon) and
>>>>> measure
>>>>> relative
>>>>> amplitudes. It can eliminate most of the guesswork.
>>>>> AutomatedOutlet.com will
>>>>> even loan you one - knowing full well that 98% (my WAG) of the
>>>>> loaners turn
>>>>> into purchases.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=463&cat=0&page=1
>>>>>
>>>>> Insteon prices have edged up plus they have apparently
>>>>> discontinued
>>>>> some of
>>>>> their lower priced "value" lines but I think it is still the
>>>>> best
>>>>> choice for
>>>>> new installations where the user doesn't want to spend far more
>>>>> for
>>>>> hard-wired low voltage control. However, someone who has a large
>>>>> X-10
>>>>> investment and understands the ins and outs is probably better
>>>>> off
>>>>> sticking
>>>>> with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that you've had X-10 problems, you may continue to have
>>>>> them
>>>>> with
>>>>> Insteon. You probably need to run the the problems down before
>>>>> deciding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whichever way you go, as you move into the new house, deploy
>>>>> switches and
>>>>> modules in sub-groups so you can find and fix problems before
>>>>> you
>>>>> have a a
>>>>> large number of devices. Troubleshooting a limited number of
>>>>> devices
>>>>> is
>>>>> easier to manage. You'll have lots of time to troubleshoot.
>>>>>
>>>>> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was not aware of the RF missing factor on these devices. You
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>correct on the overhype. They discuss this technique in depth
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>give
>>>>>>the impression all Insteon devices are "fully equipped" but when
>>>>>>examining their remote units, the RF is never mentioned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The units are quite pricey and the slow replacement of X10
>>>>>>devices
>>>>>>seems attractive. Most of mine have been removed from service
>>>>>>due
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>several reasons
>>>>>>- I am building a new home and recovering units for the move.
>>>>>>- many operated unreliabily or not at all despite two powerline
>>>>>>signal
>>>>>>bridges and neighbour blocking devices.
>>>>>>- too may light left on for days is costing me energy money on
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>bill, despite software to shut them down a few times a day for
>>>>>>"just
>>>>>>in case" scenarios.
>>>>>>- too many "all lights on" in the middle of the night from
>>>>>>wireless
>>>>>>receivers (I think)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I short the three of four dozen units and 15 years of trying to
>>>>>>perfect the system has resulted in a complete distrust for X10
>>>>>>units
>>>>>>and there is only a few spots where flakey can be useful. Soon I
>>>>>>will
>>>>>>retire and won't need my "sunrise" algorythm for a 300W halogen
>>>>>>anymore either. I was hoping Inteon may be an answer for a
>>>>>>technology
>>>>>>hungry kid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:4775911c.2425218@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unless you're using something that receives RF directly, you
>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>> see the
>>>>>>> RF messages. You only see powerline messages so the incorrect
>>>>>>> command has
>>>>>>> already made it to the powerline before your software is aware
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if your software does receive direct RF messages, there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> seldom
>>>>>>> collisions between RF codes and when there are, the result is
>>>>>>> garbage -
>>>>>>> there's no possible way to sort out what the two colliding
>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>> The RF messages do contain data which allows a receiver to
>>>>>>> check
>>>>>>> validity
>>>>>>> but any corruption will merely cause an invalid message it
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>> one message to be transformed into another. IOW, corrupt RF
>>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> make it to the powerline from any X-10 transceiver.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bream Rockmetteller <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received a
>>>>>>>>"bad"
>>>>>>>>message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in a
>>>>>>>>strange
>>>>>>>>manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10"
>>>>>>>>instead
>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>"turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll  add a script
>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>"Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you
>>>>>>>>receive
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the kitchen
>>>>>>>>lights."
>>>>>>>>That way, even if the switch or the receiver or some random
>>>>>>>>noise
>>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>>caused the message to go bad, the software will re-transmit
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>correct
>>>>>>>>message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I hope this helps...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
>>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
>>> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net  http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx