Re: Help with 7 Circuit Project?

[Byron Hynes <bph@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

As someone who ACTUALLY has RadioRA installed, I am reasonably sure that
the perceived delay is not because the signal must make a "round trip". The
difference between a signal travelling 5 feet (from controller to switch),
10 feet (controller-repeater-switch) or 20 feet (controller-repeater-switch
(ack) - repeater - controller) via radio wave is unlikely to be perceived
by a human.

Radio waves are fast. (Now, powerline signals, on the other hand, are slower
than radio signals, but I'd content that most people can't perceive them
either - if you can, you probably notice 60 Hz flicker and notice the effect
of electronic dimming, but I digress.)

The RadioRA "stacking" "problem" is that the switch doesn't send the second
command doesn't start until the first command is acknowledged and COMPLETE.
Since the default ramp rate is something like 1.5 or 2 seconds, this is the
delay you see. For example, stack all the on/off commands you like to the
non-dimming switches, and you wont see the effect, because those completion
times are perceived as instant.

On the other hand, when I go downstairs to the den, I press the first (top)
button then the second button on the controller at the top of the stairs.
The stair light ramps up as I am walking down, and, about two steps from
the bottom (when it hits full) the den lights are starting to come up.

This is NOT becuase the radio waves are taking too long to make a "round
trip".

- B



 > The average time it takes for X-10 Extended code (Leviton, PCS,
> Smarthome and Others), or X-10 Compose (Lightolier only)take 3/4ths of
> a second.  The basic X-10 code is shorter, I have never heard it being
> that short.
>
> Radio RA was amazingly slow (relative to powerline carrier)  of course
> all of this, you really only notice the delay when performing macros
> or stacking commands.  Of course in all the technologies they have
> implemented scenes or groups to affect many switches at once.  Lutron
> has repeater required every 30ft (may be 60ft after that  because they
> claim a 30ft radius) to ensure every switch gets a signal.  Other
> reason Radio Ra is slow is the signal must make a round trip, and
> delays sequential commands.
>
> What the term "Professional" refers to in the industry are products
> like Leviton DHC, Smarthome, Lightolier, and other higher end X-10
> products. These products have additional circuitry in them to make
> them more robust, and more reliable.  They always require a neutral
> (with one exception Leviton has one DHC switch that does not require
> the neutral).  They typically carry a 2 year warranty, and have better
> support.  They are better choice for installers who have to deal with
> the call backs for customer support.
>
> Architechtronics, Inc.
> get to know home technologyT
> p. (610) 825.7018 f (215) 827.5484
> *top 10 reasons to use Architechtronics for your next project
> http://www.architechtronics.com/top10.html
>
> **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at
> http://www.architechtronics.com/edge.html
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> "Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:42c624c0.147244963@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> "Brett Griffin" <brett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Other complaints of X-10 had to use a coupler/repeater and it is
>>> slow.
>>> What
>>> do you think Radio Ra uses, basically every 30 feet you need a
>>> device to
>>> repeat the signal to get good coverage, and Radio Ra is as slow if
>>> not
>>> slower than X-10.  Now I am not bashing Radio RA, it is a great
>>> reliable
>>> technology, but it 3 times the cost of professional X-10 or UPB.
>> The first copy of an X-10 signal takes 11/60 of a second (0.183333333
>> secs).
>> Elsewhere you've said UPB takes 1/5 second (0.2 secs). Do the math.
>> Lutron's Radio RA uses RF which travels at 186,000 miles per second
>> taking
>> .00000030547 to go 30 feet. Are you saying that Lutron repeats the
>> signal
>> sequentially? (Z-Wave apparently does this so the time required
>> between
>> any
>> two end points depends on the number of hops required.) Even in a
>> sequential
>> system, most of the total time will be from the length of the code
>> itself
>> and Lutron RA does use a ridiculously lengthy code. Crestron crams
>> far
>> more
>> information into a very short code. Insteon appears to repeat both RF
>> and
>> PLC in realtime so the only time involved is the length of the code
>> which
>> is
>> very short. (I do not have hands-on experience with Insteon so I may
>> be
>> misinterpreting things.)
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "professional X-10". Most of the X-10
>> Pro
>> modules I've seen have innards that are identical to the non-pro
>> versions -
>> the only difference (aside from price) being the logo on the case and
>> terms
>> of the warranty. Some recent modules appear to come only in Pro
>> versions.
>> UPB appears to cost 2-3 times non-pro X-10 list prices. Direct
>> comparisons
>> are difficult due to the lack of equivalent UPB devices.