RE: Re: Context parameters within Message Bodies

[Kevin Hawkins]

Ian -

As you know I have gone down a similar learning curve to you -
embedded C etc. I started off PIC and then moved to the Rabbit controllers.


Now to me the availability of a Rabbit core - the new 3710 for
example which has 256K Flash 128K RAM and 1MB serial Flash plus Ethernet
onboard and assembled at a one off cost of $49 US ($39 qty 100) is a
fantastic price - $10 more and you have 512K RAM and 512K Flash. I just
wonder if you've looked at these again as you move to Ethernet ?? I don't
know how portable your C code would be to the Rabbit - and of course there
is the upfront cost of the dev system which includes the compiler - and
there is existing xAP code for the Rabbit too ...

Re your VIOM example btw - I have VIOM support within my xAP Rabbit
board (basically because I have three VIOMs) - I could run up a Windows xAP
application for the VIOM if anyone is interested, should be a very quick
job
with just basic status and control for I/O.

Kevin




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian B [mailto:<a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=0H0SXvEeJhvyg7PCzyeT7UM6SWRs_T5PGhmhk-8HBmgF3LtrLMdo39_dSzVCzKWCFj723SHLN08zAjfmdw">Ian@M...</a>]
> Sent: 30 November 2003 22:06
> To: <a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=QuCjgicrT0Ul41mCUNvLgp9TGOLou-49OHwYrgGAZMUU-4kzf-RiXLQXjSA3rQkc2aL5QIltmbaz7uaSjketoMKsD9ZjxQ">xAP_developer@xxxxxxx</a>
> Subject: RE: [xAP_developer] Re: Context parameters within
> Message Bodies
>
> Hmmm, not sure if that is a fair assumption to make
> however it is too early to say for sure at the moment.
>
> I find developing software even in C is very time
> consuming on an embedded platform. I will be sorely
> tempted on my own kit to put in enough to get the job done
> but no more.
>
> an example from the end user maybe
> One of the guys on ukha_d has a problem a VIOM would solve
> nicely but he has no spare cabling from the loft to the
> PC. Imagine the VIOM with Ethernet for 60 quid (total
> guess on price) and of course assuming there is network up
> there. He would not care about other logic especially as
> it would push up the price. Just give it an IP and send
> and receive commands via whatever including xAP depending
> on who builds the module.
>
> I agree Rabbit and other processors could do the serial to
> Ethernet bridging quite easily and even build in some logic too.
>
> I think I am saying maybe we should try to emulate the
> serial low spec model in low spec Ethernet devices and not
> assume they will have power they may not have.
>
> It is early days yet and I still have to cross the bridge
> of soldering a 100 pin chip with .65mm pitch. I am very
> hopeful though and I have plans including Ethernet
> enabling the control for my chicken hutch door sometime
> next summer.
>
> Ian (thinking up ever crazier schemes)
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: mark_harrison_uk2 [mailto:<a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=PU2JesenYMR9NdNAyLnCmwkTT4LgPPwVs-6w6V0HiYP97NsmzQzmK_8b_rqB7MOHQE6JNo6FqT4TilmVbA">mph@a...</a>]
> >Sent: 30 November 2003 21:32
> >To: <a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=QuCjgicrT0Ul41mCUNvLgp9TGOLou-49OHwYrgGAZMUU-4kzf-RiXLQXjSA3rQkc2aL5QIltmbaz7uaSjketoMKsD9ZjxQ">xAP_developer@xxxxxxx</a>
> >Subject: [xAP_developer] Re: Context parameters within
> Message Bodies
> >
> >
> >I'd been imagining Rabbit, simply because I have one (it
> provides xAP
> >control for my hifi and could also bridge to xAP-serial without
> >breaking into a sweat.)
> >
> >I would suggest that anything serial can get away with
> being "dumb"...
> >
> >... wheras anything with ethernet / wireless should look
> at having a
> >bit more horsepower / capability.
> >
> >M.
> >
> >--- In <a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=QuCjgicrT0Ul41mCUNvLgp9TGOLou-49OHwYrgGAZMUU-4kzf-RiXLQXjSA3rQkc2aL5QIltmbaz7uaSjketoMKsD9ZjxQ">xAP_developer@xxxxxxx</a>,
"Ian B" <Ian@M...> wrote:
> >> Ah, I may be one step ahead of you here then. I have
> just ordered an
> >> embedded Ethernet development kit which I am hoping
> will enable me
> >to add
> >> Ethernet as the native interface for my new devices. It will
use
> >the Realtek
> >> chip found on your average 7 quid network card so I am
> hoping the
> >cost per
> >> project will not be huge and certainly bring it into
> the region you
> >are
> >> looking at below. We shall see.
> >>
> >> Whilst serial (485) is still a very cheap interface as far as
a
> >networked
> >> medium goes it is not supported in 99% of homes. This
> applies even
> >to my own
> >> where I have a 100Mbit Ethernet pretty much everywhere but
not a
> >serial
> >> cable anywhere save to HV and the phone logger. The
> watering etc.
> >use
> >> dedicated cables and not a serial link.
> >>
> >> This and feedback from various sources have led me towards
> >Ethernet. I think
> >> this could fit into a 16k Atmel chip costing around a
> fiver so it
> >still
> >> counts as a low end device in my book.
> >>
> >> I am hoping that new devices will come in around the price
point
> >you are
> >> looking at but in small quantities. This obviously
> depends on the
> >> capabilities and interactive stuff with screens etc.
> will push the
> >price up.
> >> Something like my I/O controller will come in at the
> lower end of
> >the scale.
> >>
> >> What do you think?
> >>
> >> Ian
> >>
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: mark_harrison_uk2 [mailto:mph@a...]
> >> >Sent: 30 November 2003 20:47
> >> >To: <a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=QuCjgicrT0Ul41mCUNvLgp9TGOLou-49OHwYrgGAZMUU-4kzf-RiXLQXjSA3rQkc2aL5QIltmbaz7uaSjketoMKsD9ZjxQ">xAP_developer@xxxxxxx</a>
> >> >Subject: [xAP_developer] Re: Context parameters within
Message
> >Bodies
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >OK - I should have explained better :-)
> >> >
> >> >I can see a situation where the logic is actually
> interpreted in
> >> >something like an ethernet<->serial xAP bridge.
> >> >
> >> >On the serial side, we have PIC devices which are
> basic input /
> >> >output type telemetry modules.
> >> >
> >> >On the ethernet side we have more sophisticated stuff,
> including
> >all
> >> >the PC-based applications we have today.
> >> >
> >> >The hybrid-bridge in the middle MIGHT be a PC, but is
equally
> >likely
> >> >to be something, say, Rabbit-based.
> >> >
> >> >However, rather than simply passing the same xAP
> messages from one
> >> >side to another, it could process them, and take into
account
> >> >state... thus leading IT to be the "rules
engine".
> >> >
> >> >With any decent volumes, a Rabbit-based device could hit
a £100
> >price
> >> >point today. In the next couple of years, we'll see
> the power of
> >> >devices at that price point go up, and likewise the
> cost of devices
> >> >at that power point go down.
> >> >
> >> >Such a device would be a FRACTION of the cost of a
> Homevision, and
> >> >compared to anything comparable would blow it out of the
water.
> >> >
> >> >Mark
> >> >
> >> >--- In <a
href="/group/xAP_developer/post?postID=QuCjgicrT0Ul41mCUNvLgp9TGOLou-49OHwYrgGAZMUU-4kzf-RiXLQXjSA3rQkc2aL5QIltmbaz7uaSjketoMKsD9ZjxQ">xAP_developer@xxxxxxx</a>,
"Ian B" <Ian@M...> wrote:
> >> >> >Yes I agree (been there - got the T shirt)...
but
> what you are
> >> >saying is
> >> >> >that end nodes ultimately will be receiving
compiled scripts
> >> >(xAPscripts)
> >> >> >telling them how to interpret the various
schemas - sort of
> >blows
> >> >the small
> >> >> >pic based end nodes out of the water. Where, and
who is
> >developing
> >> >> this......
> >> >>
> >> >> I second this as from experience xAP has pushed me
> towards ever
> >> >more capable
> >> >> processors to keep up with even the relatively
simple tasks.
> >> >>
> >> >> My ideas around the house have a lot to do with
networking
> >> >(Ethernet) small
> >> >> nodes at the moment and to be honest the vast
> majority of folks
> >> >interested
> >> >> in HA maybe won't have a PC on 24/7. To keep our
> appeal as wide
> >as
> >> >possible
> >> >> we should keep the hardware requirements as low as
possible
> >> >wherever we can.
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't get me wrong as I also believe the
PC/Linux/etc. has a
> >place
> >> >in this
> >> >> somewhere. I remember how lost I was when my own
> server went down
> >> >for a
> >> >> fortnight with a blown motherboard and power supply.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ian
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >
> >
> >
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