Interconnecting the xAP protocol with x10 signals

[Alex Ciurea]

Hello to everybody,

this is what I've understood so far:

there is a module, CM12, connected to the mains that sends commands, using
x-10 standards, to a LM12 (lamp modulator ??). The LM12 is connected to my
lamp.

Now my questions :) :

Between the CM12 and LM12, the commands are transported using x-10 signals,
correct?

But, after the process starts (I give command toggle off/on my lamp) I
send my commands using the xAP protocol.
The CM12 is able to convert the xAP commands into x10 signals? Or there
is another device capable to do this?
Likewise, the LM12 is able to decode the x-10 signals into xAP commands?

I presume no, the CM12 isn't capable to convert from xAp to x10,
because xAP is a new protocol. So, how can I use xAP with x-10? Because it
seems that I need some converters for codeing/decodeing from one to
another...

For Kevin:

I've subscribed to UKHA forum but I haven't received yet a confirmation
email. I'll try later.
My mains voltage and frequency is 220V and 50Hz. Or maybe 230V, because
the standard isn't followed here. E.g. I live in a campus, here in
Bucharest, where the mains constantly reach 240-250-260V, deppending on
what
floor you live :))... my poor PC obviously has a strong russian power
suply,
in order to resist the stress...
I'll ask you about your special kits a little bit later. I don't know
how much money do I have. Anyway, I've made my choice, there is no coming
back :)...

Thanks alot,
Alex


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Hawkins" <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=AWBDAi8ODr_4mF-S3hiLRzsAnNrY6486elvuDCe2f_QW1n3h2KCyI-0WL_Rb1TuieAjCE9xJWgHVV1VUQtadz9B_">lists@u...</a>>
To: <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=6wDxGndtrI-9lTo53MXrzW7Zy5iIJB6qQHLk_q7gmV4pXmnovFYPs_mK2RI5rYHNCpk3zkN_LNKARtKsRinnUXAboKAiBa0">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation


> Just to be clear Alex - there are two types of controller you are
talking
> about here. xAP and X10. xAP is very new so you can't buy 'off the
shelf'
> xAP controllers yet - most of the applications are run through a PC.
>
> 1) xAP is effectively a software protocol but it can be embedded in
> a device either as a sender, which is really a controller, (perhaps a
PC
or
> timer) and also in a receiver - perhaps a little box that acts as an
> On/OFF/Dimmer for your lamp. If they were both xAP capable then you
would
> need some connection between them to act as the network. This could be
> Ethernet, serial (eg RS232) or many other possibilities including such
> things as radio - as long as data can get between the sender and the
> receiver.
>
> 2) X10 is a much older technology and has no dependence on xAP - it
> effectively allows you to buy a very low cost hardware X10 controller
and
> very low cost lamp or appliance modules and they talk to each other
over
> your existing mains wiring. If you have not seen this working then do
buy
> yourself a couple of modules to play - it is quite enlightening and
not
> overly expensive. Make sure that you get the correct voltage units for
your
> country so I am guessing you should buy European modules - there is a
> distributor for X10 in Belgium who seems to stock almost every variety
of
> socket form that Europe uses although maybe not Romanian. You might
have
to
> hack together a converter just to match the mechanics. I will try and
find
> the web site address and I would recommend you get a lamp module, an
> appliance module, a switch or a small controller - plus maybe even a
PC
> interface- this would probably cost around 100 Euros or something.
Maybe
> that is more than you wish to invest though. If you are interested I
will
> help you choose further - I may even have a couple of 'special' kits
that
> were sold at very advantageous prices here that are a bundle of useful
parts
> - I would be happy to send these to you for what they cost me. What is
your
> mains voltage and frequency - 230V 50Hz ??
>
> xAP appears again now as a way of mixing X10 in with a load of other
> technologies that form the cornerstones of Home Automation -
temperature
> sensors, security systems, water flow, infra red control, audio
> distribution, telephone caller ID, MP3 playback, video etc etc. It
> effectively acts as the glue that gets everything talking to each
other.
>
> So in an X10 setup your xAP controller knows how to convert its
> information to a format that X10 can use so it speaks through your PC
> connected X10 interface which sends and receives X10 powerline
commands to
> the X10 lamp or X10 appliance modules you have. Additionally if you
have
X10
> controllers then xAP will hear the X10 signals and convert them back
to
xAP
> messages. xAP becomes the 'all capable' technology in this and you can
build
> your own system up using a variety of different technologies and get
them
> all talking to each other.
>
> BTW Mark/Stuart - Am I right in thinking we have another Romanian
> member of the UKHA list ? Dan the IR man ?? Or is my memory failing me
...
> again...
>
> Kevin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Ciurea [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=LJTlaslDZn2Wt_JPL6g1TqsJR-kjbMnTX68_h5QU1mDFeoru9nPQoBe0BL1qZVE3j-AAy3iy">alex@v...</a>]
> > Sent: 15 April 2003 15:25
> > To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=6wDxGndtrI-9lTo53MXrzW7Zy5iIJB6qQHLk_q7gmV4pXmnovFYPs_mK2RI5rYHNCpk3zkN_LNKARtKsRinnUXAboKAiBa0">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> > Subject: Re: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
> >
> > Hello Kevin,
> >
> > Thanks alot for your extra-detailed answer.
> >
> > Now I get it : xAP is a protocol used to transmit data to and
from
> > various
> > devices, connected via X10, wireless, dedicated wires, etc, etc..
> >
> > To send commands I need a PIC/Rabbit controller, but to execute
the
> > commands, I need a decoder for each device? I mean, each device
should
> > have
> > a microcontroller that will interpret the commands?
> >
> > I presume that in order to light up a lamp, there should be a
> > microcontroller (PIC or Rabbit) that sends commands to the lamp,
and
> > the
> > lamp should have another microcontroller (for decodeing) my
commands.
> >
> > So, if I want to make an application to turn on/off a lamp via a
WEB
> > browser, using X10, I need:
> >
> > - a PC with a HTPP server;
> > - a PIC/Rabbit microcontroller connected to my PC and also
connected
to
> > the
> > mains (that will transmit my commands through mains - using the
xAP
> > protocol
> > via X10 - );
> > - a decoder for the lamp, that will decode my commands and will
control
> > the
> > dimmer;
> > - a lamp :).
> >
> > The dimmer is easy to find in US, but being in Europe (Romania),
I
have
> > to
> > build my own dimmer? I know, I could fly to US, buy some dimmers
and
> > come
> > back in a second, but this is not a long term solution...
> >
> > Probably those aren't questions for the xAP mailing list, but for
those
> > questions I haven't found yet any answers.
> >
> > Thanks alot,
> > Alex
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kevin Hawkins" <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=AWBDAi8ODr_4mF-S3hiLRzsAnNrY6486elvuDCe2f_QW1n3h2KCyI-0WL_Rb1TuieAjCE9xJWgHVV1VUQtadz9B_">lists@u...</a>>
> > To: <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=6wDxGndtrI-9lTo53MXrzW7Zy5iIJB6qQHLk_q7gmV4pXmnovFYPs_mK2RI5rYHNCpk3zkN_LNKARtKsRinnUXAboKAiBa0">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:05 PM
> > Subject: RE: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
> >
> >
> > > Hi Alex - welcome to the list !
> > >
> > > Most of the talk here is focussed on xAP itself rather than
X10
> > > although X10 can interact very nicely with xAP and there are
xAP
> > schemas
> > in
> > > place to facilitate this.
> > > X10 is essential a whole other area and you will find lots
of
> > > information on the internet covering this - a good place
would be
the
> > X10
> > > main site - and their support area at
> > <a href="http://www.x10.com/support/support.htm";>http://www.x10.com/support/support.htm</a>
> > > - unfortunately this site is one of the worst offenders for
push
> > advertising
> > > - pop ups etc. There are many other sites of a technical
nature
> > around X10
> > > and a Google search will be rewarding. You can also find
helpful
> > people on
> > > the UKHA main list as almost everyone there uses X10 to
varying
> > levels.
> > > To answer some specific issues you raised.. You can have 16
devices
> > > on each of 16 housecodes with X10 - so 256 total devices.
The
> > communication
> > > is by a signal superimposed over the mains wiring - it is
> > unfortunately
> > not
> > > 100% reliable and not inherently error checked or guaranteed
delivery
> > so
> > it
> > > can be a little quirky in use - however it is cheap and
cheerful
> > > (particularly in the US)where the costs are way lower and
the range
> > of
> > > products more extensive. The transmission speed is
relatively slow
by
> > > network standards - I can't remember offhand the exact time
for
each
> > > transmission but I think it's around 20 cycles of the mains
or so
and
> > hence
> > > expect about a half second delay for anything to happen.
> > > xAP is essentially a protocol definition aimed at the
> > > interconnection of various disparate devices to allow them
to
> > exchange
> > > information or control each other is some way. As such it is
> > independent
> > of
> > > the physical interconnection between devices which could be
any
> > electrical
> > > connection capable of exchanging data although typically
this is a
> > serial
> > > interconnect or network (Ethernet). The networks are linked
via a
> > software
> > > bridge application (should you have several networks which
in
> > practice
> > very
> > > few people do have). Your networks must also be
interconnected
> > physically -
> > > perhaps by a standard hardware router.
> > > The speed of message transmission on xAP is simply dictated
by your
> > > physical interconnect speed so at say 10-100MB/s it is to
all
intents
> > and
> > > purposes instantaneous. Some xAP applications are designed
to talk
> > directly
> > > to each other (although as you will have read every xAP
application
> > can
> > hear
> > > everyone else) - some people will implement xAP through a
central
> > controller
> > > which will act as a coordinator for all the xAP traffic.
Really the
> > solution
> > > is dependant on your needs.
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Alex Ciurea [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=LJTlaslDZn2Wt_JPL6g1TqsJR-kjbMnTX68_h5QU1mDFeoru9nPQoBe0BL1qZVE3j-AAy3iy">alex@v...</a>]
> > > > Sent: 15 April 2003 08:10
> > > > To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=6wDxGndtrI-9lTo53MXrzW7Zy5iIJB6qQHLk_q7gmV4pXmnovFYPs_mK2RI5rYHNCpk3zkN_LNKARtKsRinnUXAboKAiBa0">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> > > > Subject: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm new to this protocol and I could'n find a summary
> > > > documentation about X10.
> > > >
> > > > Where I could find a brief documentation about x-10
> > > > protocol? What hardware do I need to start my own
> > > > application?
> > > >
> > > > I need simple facts, like how many devices can I use
> > > > in a x-10 network, how fast can I send the commands to
> > > > my devices, what interface is used for decodeing the
> > > > xAP commands, how can I interlink two or more xAP
> > > > networks... etc...
> > > >
> > > > I've read some articles from www.xapautomation.org and
> > > > I've understood how I can identify my devices, and
> > > > other stuff (what can I say, those guys have done
> > > > their homeworks because there's a lot of detailed
> > > > documentation about xAP) but nothing practical about
> > > > x-10.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks alot for your time and help,
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
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