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Hi Phil,
My experience with LightWave is zero and with Z-Wave is very
mixed. Great when it works - a PITA when it doesn't or and it hasn't
lived up to the plug and play ease with which it is presented.
Fortunately I have the C-Bus option though.
I also believe there's a fundamental legal problem caused by the
patent that Lutron hold with regard to reporting status changes over a
wireless network. This impacts real time status update events and
results in polling being required for some remote devices. Hence a
local change does not get reflected in the controller immediately.
I'm told this patent impacts all wireless networks not just Z-Wave.
I guess the three main standalone controllers are Vera, Fibaro and now
SmartThings. Surprisingly all have issues currently and seem to be in
a permanent beta release state. Apple HomeKit obviously has potential
too - mainly because it's Apple..
*Vera:* Had a very bad period of firmware updates moving from their UI5
to UI7 interface and became very dismissive and uncommunicative on the
forums. Several major developers gave up on Vera because of this,
moving to OpenHAB I think. However it is perhaps the most open and
configurable of the platforms allowing you to add your own LUA code. It
is also a local network controller not requiring a cloud service. There
are a lot of plugins and UI7 is now becoming more stable and a lot
better but by no means perfect or in a finished state.There is also an
alternative interface called AltUI that is in my opinion way better. I
like Vera because you can write your own plugins (and of course I use
xAP) and for the variety of third party plugins already available. There
is an API too. The hardware however is underpowered and limited
memory. There are two new Vera models due to launch this 'Fall' which I
hope will address this. These were announced Jan 2014 !! and long
delayed but I am cautiously optimistic they will surface before Xmas.
The Vera Edge has recently been reduced to £100 to clear the
previous
models - and at that price is really good value I feel. It is latest Gen
5 Z-Wave+ - do try and make sure any Z-Wave controller you buy has this
if possible as it improves range, speed, reliability and allows OTA
firmware updates of Z-Wave modules.
*Fibaro* HC2: A very powerful controller hardware wise , costly though
and has really frustrating firmware issues currently. It is however
Z-Wave not Z-Wave+. Again they moved UI from V3 to V4 but this has been
in development and various beta releases (current 57) for around 2 years
now I think and it is still plagued with problems. Things keep being
fixed and then broken again and promised features just don't appear.
Fibaro are very poor on support, communication and deadlines and
obviously under resourced on firmware development. It is a most
frustrating product experience but has that lure of potential as it
could be the best controller if they would just pull their finger out
and invest in firmware development. The system is pretty much closed at
the moment so you are dependent on Fibaro. I got involved when they
enabled plugins , written in Lua and then a couple of firmware updates
later they removed this capability for 'security' reasons. Arrgh. Hence
there are only a few Fibaro official plugins available. Again it can
operate locally (sans cloud) and has an API with some scripting via LUA
but not at the plugin level.
*SmartThings: * Hub v2 . It beggars belief how Samsung handled the UK
product release - it has been a complete fiasco with the product
functionally broken. It just doesn't do what they say it does currently.
Samsung acquired SmartThings but they should never have allowed this
launch to happen. Samsung is fundamentally a cloud based controller,
and requires Internet access to do almost anything which is a major
architectural concern to me. Samsung created separate UK/EU servers to
handle their UK launch but this broke authentication with most third
party developer offerings , and that's a lot of device integration
broken. Two months later and they have so far been unable to fix this
(!) although there has been some signs in the last few days that a fix
is imminent. I am convinced Samsung knew this was a problem before
launch but chose to go ahead anyway to meet Xmas marketing potential.
UK support seems out of the loop within Samsung on what is broken and
when it may get fixed - frankly they are embarrassed and just treading
water. Z-Wave and ZigBee devices work but that is about it. Samsung
also moved from V1 to V2 of the hub and there are lots of other firmware
issues but they are gradually being resolved. US SmartThings support
admit they are swamped currently. The V2 hub is Z-Wave + , ZigBee,
Ethernet. Local device control over IP is potentially possible with
this V2 hub but is not really enabled yet in their development tools. So
cloud based it has to be for now. SmartThings uniquely has the
potential to rule the roost as it is an open platform with respectable
developer tools supporting plugins written in 'Groovy' . There are many
committed developers. It is affordable and most significantly I think
has the potential to achieve volume sales and hence adoption. They will
fix the current issues of course eventually which is more confidence
than I have in Vera or Fibaro.
Also there is always the software route too with a Z-Wave
dongle. HomeSeer has good Z-Wave support including unique support for
Z-Net which is a WiFi connected Z-Wave+ node. You can add several Z-Net
boxes to improve your Z-Wave coverage and even link Internet remote
Z-Wave sites. OpenHAB seems the current 'vibe' with the techies but
again there is a V1 to V2 move underway to become more user friendly .
Indigo on Mac is well regarded if you want to put your Mac mini into
service for that and there are many many others with their advocates
here. I prefer a standalone box as a base controller though and then
adding the 'smarts' by a PC.
K
On 10/11/2015 15:50, 'Phil Harris' phil@xxxxxxx [ukha_d] wrote:
>
>
> OK â?¦ so Z-Wave units create a mesh network **AND** report
status etc?
>
> Do they all report current consumption?
>
> The plug in switches and dimmers appear to be around the
£25 - £30
> mark nowadays which isnâ??t too bad (I havenâ??t looked at
Z-Wave for a
> loooog while and it seems to have settled in price quite nicely) so I
> might just head that way straight off the bat â?¦
>
> Whatâ??s good in the way of Z-wave controllers? I see that the
Vera Edge
> is about £100 � Is the Samsung
â??SmartThingsâ?? hub also a Z-Wave
> controller? Does the Edge provide proper conditional logic and
> programming or just scheduling / triggering?
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil
>
>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Phil,<br>
<br>
     My experience
with LightWave is zero and with Z-Wave is
very mixed. Great when it works - a PITA when it doesn't or and it
hasn't lived up to the plug and play ease with which it is
presented. Fortunately I have the C-Bus option
though.<br>
<br>
    I also believe there's a
fundamental legal problem caused by
the patent that Lutron hold with regard to reporting status
changes over a wireless network. This impacts real time status
update events and results in polling being required for some
remote devices. Hence a local change does not get reflected in
the controller immediately.  I'm told
this patent impacts all
wireless networks not just Z-Wave.<br>
<br>
 I guess the three main standalone controllers are Vera, Fibaro
and now SmartThings.   Surprisingly all
have issues currently and
seem to be in a permanent beta release state. Apple HomeKit
obviously has potential too - mainly because it's Apple..<br>
<br>
   <b>Vera:</b> Had a very
bad period of firmware updates moving
from their UI5 to UI7 interface and became very dismissive and
uncommunicative on the forums. Several major developers gave up
on Vera because of this, moving to OpenHAB I think. However it is
perhaps the most open and configurable of the platforms allowing
you to add your own LUA code. It is also a local
network
controller not requiring a cloud service. There are a lot of
plugins and UI7 is now becoming more stable and a lot better but
by no means perfect or in a finished state.There is also an
alternative interface called AltUI that is in my opinion way
better. I like Vera because you can write your own plugins (and
of course I use xAP) and for the variety of third party plugins
already available. There is an API too. Â The hardware however
is
underpowered and limited memory. There are two new Vera models due
to launch this 'Fall'Â which I hope will address this. These
were
announced Jan 2014 !! and long delayed but I am cautiously
optimistic they will surface before Xmas. The Vera Edge has
recently been reduced to £100 to clear the previous models - and
at that price is really good value I feel. It is latest Gen 5
Z-Wave+Â - do try and make sure any Z-Wave controller you buy
has
this if possible as it improves range, speed, reliability and
allows OTA firmware updates of Z-Wave modules.<br>
<br>
   <b> Fibaro</b> HC2: A very
powerful controller hardware wise ,
costly though and has really frustrating firmware issues
currently. It is however Z-Wave not Z-Wave+. Again they moved
UI
from V3 to V4 but this has been in development and various beta
releases (current 57) for around 2 years now I think and it is
still plagued with problems. Â Things keep being fixed and then
broken again and promised features just don't appear. Fibaro are
very poor on support, communication and deadlines and obviously
under resourced on firmware development. It is a most frustrating
product experience but has that lure of potential as it could be
the best controller if they would just pull their finger out and
invest in firmware development. The system is pretty much closed
at the moment so you are dependent on Fibaro. I got involved
when
they enabled plugins , written in Lua and then a couple of
firmware updates later they removed this capability for 'security'
reasons. Arrgh. Hence there are only a few Fibaro official plugins
available. Again it can operate locally (sans cloud) and has an
API with some scripting via LUA but not at the plugin level.Â
<br>
<br>
  Â
<b>SmartThings:Â </b> Hub v2
.  It beggars belief howÂ
Samsung handled the UK product release - it has been a complete
fiasco with the product functionally broken. It just doesn't do
what they say it does currently. Samsung acquired SmartThings but
they should never have allowed this launch to happen. Samsung
is
fundamentally a cloud based controller, and requires Internet
access to do almost anything which is a major architectural
concern to me. Samsung created separate UK/EU servers to handle
their UK launch but this broke authentication with most third
party developer offerings , and that's a lot of device integration
broken. Two months later and they have so far been unable to
fix
this (!) although there has been some signs in the last few days
that a fix is imminent. I am convinced Samsung knew this was a
problem before launch but chose to go ahead anyway to meet Xmas
marketing potential. UK support seems out of the loop within
Samsung on what is broken and when it may get fixed - frankly they
are embarrassed and just treading water. Z-Wave and ZigBee
devices work but that is about it. Samsung also moved from V1
to
V2 of the hub and there are lots of other firmware issues but they
are gradually being resolved. US SmartThings support admit they
are swamped currently. The V2 hub is Z-Wave + , ZigBee,
Ethernet. Local device control over IP is potentially possible
with this V2 hub but is not really enabled yet in their
development tools. So cloud based it has to be for
now.Â
SmartThings uniquely has the potential to rule the roost as it is
an open platform with respectable developer tools supporting
plugins written in 'Groovy' . There are many committed
developers. It is affordable and most significantly I think has
the potential to achieve volume sales and hence adoption. They
will fix the current issues of course eventually which is more
confidence than I have in Vera or Fibaro.<br>
<br>
    Also there is
always the software route too with a Z-Wave
dongle. HomeSeer has good Z-Wave support including unique
support
for Z-Net which is a WiFi connected Z-Wave+ node. You can add
several Z-Net boxes to improve your Z-Wave coverage and even link
Internet remote Z-Wave sites. OpenHAB seems the current 'vibe'
with the techies but again there is a V1 to V2 move underway to
become more user friendly . Indigo on Mac is well
regarded if
you want to put your Mac mini into service for that and there
are
many many others with their advocates here. I prefer a
standalone
box as a base controller though and then adding the 'smarts' by a
PC.<br>
<br>
   K<br>
<br>
<br>
 On 10/11/2015 15:50, 'Phil Harris' <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:phil@xxxxxxx";>phil@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d]
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">OK
â?¦ so Z-Wave units create a mesh network
*<b>AND</b>* report
status etc?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Do
they all report current
consumption?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
plug in switches and dimmers appear to be around the £25 -
£30 mark nowadays which isnâ??t too bad (I havenâ??t
looked at
Z-Wave for a loooog while and it seems to have settled in
price quite nicely) so I might just head that way straight
off the bat â?¦ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Whatâ??s
good in the way of Z-wave controllers? I see that the Vera
Edge is about £100 � Is the Samsung
â??SmartThingsâ?? hub also a
Z-Wave controller? Does the Edge provide proper conditional
logic and programming or just scheduling /
triggering?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<br>
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Posted by: Kevin Hawkins <yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx>
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