Re: Lightwave RF...

["Phil Harris phil@xxxxxxxxxxx [ukha_d]" <ukha_d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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charset=utf-8
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Thinking about it then z-wave is probably a good bet to go for as I did
the=
Kickstarter project for the Neeo remote (https://neeo.com) and in theory t=
hat should be nearing the point where it actually materialises and that's
s=
upposed to have native z-wave support built in ...

I do have a couple of Mini-PCs that I could press into use as z-wave
contro=
llers ... I have an Acer Revo RL80 (which I'll admit I do rather have a
bit=
of a soft spot for for some reason) and a Mac Mini (quite an old one but i=
t runs Windows 7 and I was using as a Homegate controller for C-Bus) so
dis=
crete low power dedicated hardware to run controllers on isn't a problem
..=
. :-)

So ... I guess I just need to work out what to put on my shopping list. ;-)

Phil

Sent from my iPad

> On 10 Nov 2015, at 19:52, ukha@xxxxxxx [ukha_d]
<ukha_d@yahoogroups.=
com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Yes it is a mesh network, my devices report their status however I
don't =
know if they all do.
>=20
> Some devices report consumption some don't. I have a couple of these
http=
://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-greenwave-5-port-powernode and these  http://ww=
w.vesternet.com/z-wave-tkb-wall-plug-switch-meter-uk
>=20=20
>=20
> Which both have the ability but it does depend on the controller, I
find =
Domoticz does better than Vera although Vera have told me they are fixing
t=
he Greenwave one.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> My findings on controllers are:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Vera - its ok but fairly dumbed down, does have Lua so you could write
yo=
ur own conditional code etc... (not tried this) Seems to have great
potenti=
al but they haven't quite made it yet - has a fairly simple Android app
tha=
t has a good WAF. Takes them a little while to support new devices. Some
us=
eful 3rd party plugins like Squeezebox, Denon, GlobalCache, etc.. - see
her=
e http://apps.mios.com/=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Domoticz - free (can download and install into a VM to play around
withou=
t hardware) but you need to find something to run it on (windows,
raspberry=
pi, etc...) and have to buy a Z-Wave controller, I use one of these
http://=
www.vesternet.com/z-wave-aeon-labs-z-stick-usb-controller-gen5 and it
works=
well. This uses OpenZwave which I have had my issues with, e.g. you are ve=
ry much reliant on whether the developers care about a device so some
devic=
es are not supported (this was the main reason why I added Vera as well -
b=
oth support primary and secondary controllers so are in the same network
an=
d communicate). This is much more of a blank canvas than the other Z-wave
c=
ontrollers, has Lua and its own conditional logic called blocky. The API
ha=
s also allowed me to add in other things that I have. Lots of possible
inte=
gration with this, literally dozens of hardware devices supported that
open=
up many possibilities - http://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Domoticz_Wiki_Manual=
=20
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> SmartThings - I'm on the fence about this at the moment - has Z-Wave
& Zi=
gbee so looks promising but from what I can tell its quite a closed
system,=
doesn't appear to have API & scripting and only controllable via a
mobile =
app - no good for me while I am away and want to connect in using a
browser=
. Note I have only read about this and not actually tried it so may not be
=
accurate.....
>=20
> Logitech - have just released this in the US - http://www.logitech.com/en=
-us/product/harmony-home-hub-extender - which also interests me as I have
b=
een considering a Harmony remote to integrate with my Z-Wave, single
button=
to turn everything on etc..., like SmartThings this does Z-Wave and Zigbee
>=20
> Other controllers - a number more available at varying prices, I've
not t=
ried any of the others, Vesternet gives a good idea of what there is
>=20
> Note I don't have any connection to Vesternet other than buying from
them=
.
>=20
> In general now that you can buy SmartThings in Currys and its backed
by S=
amsung I'm hoping this might start taking off and pushing down prices,
econ=
omy of scale etc.........
>=20
> ---In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, <phil@...> wrote :
>=20
> OK =E2=80=A6 so Z-Wave units create a mesh network *AND* report status
et=
c?
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> Do they all report current consumption?
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> The plug in switches and dimmers appear to be around the =C2=A325 -
=C2=
=A330 mark nowadays which isn=E2=80=99t too bad (I haven=E2=80=99t looked
a=
t Z-Wave for a loooog while and it seems to have settled in price quite
nic=
ely) so I might just head that way straight off the bat =E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> What=E2=80=99s good in the way of Z-wave controllers? I see that the
Vera=
Edge is about =C2=A3100 =E2=80=A6 Is the Samsung =E2=80=9CSmartThings=E2=
=80=9D hub also a Z-Wave controller? Does the Edge provide proper
condition=
al logic and programming or just scheduling / triggering?
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> Phil
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx]=20
> Sent: 10 November 2015 07:06
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lightwave RF...
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I have tried it and am gradually moving to Z-Wave, I have a load (20+)
of=
plug in modules (you could buy 3 for =C2=A35 at one point in B&Q). The
dev=
ices do not report their status so you can=E2=80=99t see what state they
ar=
e in so it=E2=80=99s not as reliable as I need, I found devices getting
out=
of sync or the command not always being received.
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> You can use software like Domoticz and an RFXTRX433 to communicate
with t=
he devices.
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> I'm now moving to Z-Wave for controls and leaving the 433Mhz for
passive =
monitoring type solutions where it seems to work well.
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> I now use a combination of a Vera Edge as primary Z-Wave controller
with =
Domoticz running an Aeon Labs Z-Wave USB stick, 1 x RTXTRX and 1 x RFXTRXe
=
(both run at 433 Mhz).
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> Heating, power switch modules, smoke sensor & fish tank flood
sensors are=
Z-Wave.
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> Temperature sensors, wind, rain, electricity use & solar
generation are a=
ll over 433Mhz as they tend to be cheap.
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> I also added my Seneye fish tank monitor to Domoticz using their API.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20=20
>=20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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<div>Thinking about it then z-wave is probably a good bet to go for
as I di=
d the Kickstarter project for the Neeo remote (<a href=3D"https://neeo.com"=
>https://neeo.com</a>) and in theory that
should be nearing the point where=
it actually materialises and that's supposed to have native z-wave support=
built in ...</div><div><br></div><div>I do
have a couple of Mini-PCs that =
I could press into use as z-wave controllers ... I have an Acer Revo RL80
(=
which I'll admit I do rather have a bit of a soft spot for for some
reason)=
and a Mac Mini (quite an old one but it runs Windows 7 and I was using as =
a Homegate controller for C-Bus) so discrete low power dedicated hardware
t=
o run controllers on isn't a problem ...
:-)</div><div><br></div><div>So ..=
. I guess I just need to work out what to put on my shopping list.
;-)</div=
><div><br></div><div>Phil</div><div><br><div>Sent
from my iPad</div></div><=
div><br>On 10 Nov 2015, at 19:52, <a href=3D"mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx";>ukha=
@robdob.co.uk</a> [ukha_d] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>uk=
ha_d@xxxxxxx</a>&gt;
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote
type=3D"cite">=
<div>






=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20


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Yes it is a mesh network, my devices report their status however I don't
kn=
ow if they all do.<div><br></div><div>Some devices
report consumption some =
don't. I have a couple of these&nbsp;<a rel=3D"nofollow"
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-greenwave-5-port-powernode";>http://=
www.vesternet.com/z-wave-greenwave-5-port-powernode</a>&nbsp;and
these &nbs=
p;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"
href=3D"http://www.vesternet.com/z-=
wave-tkb-wall-plug-switch-meter-uk">http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-tkb-wal=
l-plug-switch-meter-uk</a><p>
&nbsp;</p><p>Which both have the ability but =
it does depend on the controller, I find Domoticz does better than Vera
alt=
hough Vera have told me they are fixing the Greenwave
one.&nbsp;</p><p><br>=
</p><p>My findings on controllers
are:</p><p><br></p><p>Vera - its ok but f=
airly dumbed down, does have Lua so you could write your own conditional
co=
de etc... (not tried this) Seems to have great potential but they haven't
q=
uite made it yet - has a fairly simple Android app that has a good WAF.
Tak=
es them a little while to support new devices. Some useful 3rd party
plugin=
s like Squeezebox, Denon, GlobalCache, etc.. - see here&nbsp;<a
rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://apps.mios.com/";>http://apps.mios.com=
/</a>&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>Domoticz
- free (can download and install into=
a VM to play around without hardware) but you need to find something to ru=
n it on (windows, raspberrypi, etc...) and have to buy a Z-Wave
controller,=
I use one of these&nbsp;<a rel=3D"nofollow"
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http=
://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-aeon-labs-z-stick-usb-controller-gen5">http://w=
ww.vesternet.com/z-wave-aeon-labs-z-stick-usb-controller-gen5</a>&nbsp;and
=
it works well. This uses OpenZwave which I have had my issues with, e.g.
yo=
u are very much reliant on whether the developers care about a device so
so=
me devices are not supported&nbsp;<span
style=3D"word-spacing:normal;line-h=
eight:1.25;">(this was the main reason why I added Vera as well -
both supp=
ort primary and secondary controllers so are in the same network and
commun=
icate)</span><span
style=3D"word-spacing:normal;line-height:1.25;">. This i=
s much more of a blank canvas than the other Z-wave controllers, has Lua
an=
d its own conditional logic called blocky. The API has also allowed me to
a=
dd in other things that I have. Lots of possible integration with this,
lit=
erally dozens of hardware devices supported that open up many
possibilities=
-&nbsp;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"
href=3D"http://www.domoticz.c=
om/wiki/Domoticz_Wiki_Manual">http://www.domoticz.com/wiki/Domoticz_Wiki_Ma=
nual</a>&nbsp;</span></p><p>
&nbsp;</p>SmartThings - I'm on the fence about=
this at the moment - has Z-Wave &amp; Zigbee so looks promising but
from w=
hat I can tell its quite a closed system, doesn't appear to have API
&amp; =
scripting and only controllable via a mobile app - no good for me while I
a=
m away and want to connect in using a browser. Note I have only read about
=
this and not actually tried it so may not be accurate.....<br
class=3D"yui-=
cursor"><div
class=3D"ygroups-quoted"><br></div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quote=
d">Logitech - have just released this in the US -&nbsp;<a
rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/harmony-hom=
e-hub-extender">http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/harmony-home-hub-exte=
nder</a>&nbsp;- which also interests me as I have been
considering a Harmon=
y remote to integrate with my Z-Wave, single button to turn everything on
e=
tc..., like SmartThings this does Z-Wave and Zigbee</div><div
class=3D"ygro=
ups-quoted"><br></div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quoted">Other controllers - a n=
umber more available at varying prices, I've not tried any of the others,
V=
esternet gives a good idea of what there is</div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quot=
ed"><br></div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quoted">Note I don't have any connectio=
n to Vesternet other than buying from them.</div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quot=
ed"><br></div><div
class=3D"ygroups-quoted">In general now that you can buy=
SmartThings in Currys and its backed by Samsung I'm hoping this might star=
t taking off and pushing down prices, economy of scale
etc.........<br><br>=
---In <a href=3D"mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>,=
&lt;phil@...&gt; wrote :<br><br><div
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{margin-bottom:0cm;}</style><div
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160WordSection1"=
><p class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D;">OK =E2=80=A6 so Z-Wave units create a mesh network
*<b>AND<=
/b>* report status etc?</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">
&nbsp;</span></p><p class=
=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D;">Do they all report current
consumption?</span></p><p class=3D"ygrps-=
yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> &n=
bsp;</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">The plug in switches and dimmers
appear to be=
around the =C2=A325 - =C2=A330 mark nowadays which isn=E2=80=99t too bad (=
I haven=E2=80=99t looked at Z-Wave for a loooog while and it seems to have
=
settled in price quite nicely) so I might just head that way straight off
t=
he bat =E2=80=A6 </span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span=
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">
&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"yg=
rps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"=
>What=E2=80=99s good in the way of Z-wave controllers? I see that the
Vera =
Edge is about =C2=A3100 =E2=80=A6 Is the Samsung
=E2=80=9CSmartThings=E2=80=
=9D hub also a Z-Wave controller? Does the Edge provide proper conditional
=
logic and programming or just scheduling /
triggering?</span></p><p class=
=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D;"> &nbsp;</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Cheers</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-=
yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> &n=
bsp;</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Phil</span></p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-95039216=
0MsoNormal"><span
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">
&nbsp;</span><=
/p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span
lang=3D"EN-US"=
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukh=
a_d@xxxxxxx</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>mailto:u=
kha_d@xxxxxxx</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> 10 November
2015 07:06<br><b>To=
:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a><=
br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ukha_d] Lightwave
RF...</span></p></div></div><p cl=
ass=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal">
&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ygrps-yiv-95039=
2160MsoNormal"><br><br><br></p><p>I
have tried it and am gradually moving t=
o Z-Wave, I have a load (20+) of plug in modules (you could buy 3 for =C2=
=A35 at one point in B&amp;Q). The devices do not report their status
so yo=
u can=E2=80=99t see what state they are in so it=E2=80=99s not as reliable
=
as I need, I found devices getting out of sync or the command not always
be=
ing received.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You can use
software like Domoticz and an =
RFXTRX433 to communicate with the devices.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p><p>I'm now movi=
ng to Z-Wave for controls and leaving the 433Mhz for passive monitoring
typ=
e solutions where it seems to work well.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p><p>I now use a co=
mbination of a Vera Edge as primary Z-Wave controller with Domoticz
running=
an Aeon Labs Z-Wave USB stick, 1 x RTXTRX and 1 x RFXTRXe (both run at 433=
Mhz).</p><p> &nbsp;</p><p>Heating, power switch
modules, smoke sensor &amp=
; fish tank flood sensors are Z-Wave.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p><p>Temperature senso=
rs, wind, rain, electricity use &amp; solar generation are all over
433Mhz =
as they tend to be cheap.</p><p> &nbsp;</p><p>I
also added my Seneye fish t=
ank monitor to Domoticz using their API.</p><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160=
MsoNormal"><br><br><br></p><div><p
class=3D"ygrps-yiv-950392160MsoNormal"><=
span
style=3D"color:white;"></span></p></div></div></div></div><div
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