[no subject]

-Jim


On Wed 28/11/12  9:18 AM , Marcus Warrington marcus.warrington@xxxxxxx
sent:
> Hi Kevin,
> D oh.. so I literally got the wrong end of that stick :) Still sounds
> very cheap for a switch powered by PoE, I had a Google around and
> could find them anywhere near that price.
> The D-Link  injectors sound to be what I m after  but I again , I
> can t find anything near that price range, more like  30+ Yes the
> solar panels are doing fine thanks. This time of the year they don t
> produce that much as we face the wrong direction and the sun is so low
> in the sky, but we re still generating more than the initial estimate
> so I m happy. I take it you didn t get your install in the end ?
> Marcus
> From:  [mailto:] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
> Sent: 26 November 2012 16:18
> To:
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
> Hi Marcus...
> Sorry - I didn't describe them very well ... - These  25 switches are
> powered by POE - i.e. like your AP - and provide one 'onward'
> POE
> output. So you need to have an existing POE source switch or injector.
> They're really meant to further expand each port on a central switch
> to 4 end ports. So one cable to a room and 4 Ethernet ports out from a
> small plug socket sized device. I used them in some bedrooms and the
> dining room and kitchen where they were I deal as I didn't run enough
> cabling You can also power them directly with a mains adaptor (48V)
> but that costs about  13 I believe and makes it less of a tidy
> solution D-Link make a fairly cost effective POE injector...Cheap and
> cheerful but true 802.3af ...and they used to be about a tenner IIRC
> Hope you're keeping well and that your solar panels are keeping you
> well charged .. although today was a really dull one here...
> Kevin
> On 26/11/2012 15:34, Marcus Warrington wrote:
> >   I ended up using a lot of the 3CNJ225 100Mbps ones as they are
> really
> >   cost effective if you buy carefully ~  25 for a web managed
> POE powered
> >   switch ! They just mount onto a standard UK single socket back
> box and
> >   provide 4 ports - one even offering POE forwarding plus the
> additional RJ45
> >   pass through. BTW I have some of these spare still if anyone is
> in need of any...
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Kevin.
> >
> >
> >
> > Where did you manage to find them for  25 ? I ve just bought a
> wireless access point that is POE
> >
> > compatible and at that price it d be cheaper than buying an
> actual power injector !
> >
> >
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  [mailto:] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
> >
> > Sent: 25 November 2012 12:50
> >
> > To:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > James, like Paul I really do recommend you star wire now if
> possible as
> >
> > it saves so much hassle and cost later when the HA bug bites. If
> done
> >
> > correctly you can easily revert a home to normal operation when
> you sell
> >
> > , all from the consumer unit. There's a really good info on the
> group
> >
> > associated website re wiring if you haven't already seen it ....
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/content/wiring-guide.html
[7]
> >
> >
> >
> > Just one addition to Paul's comment below..Assuming you just star
> wire 1
> >
> > cable of twin and earth to the switch then you will not have a
> problem
> >
> > if your HA switch replacement requires switched live, neutral and
> >
> > earth. Although not often encountered if you install anything
that
> >
> > requires live, switched live, netural and earth then you will
need
> to
> >
> > install three core + earth. Some fancier switches with displays /
> >
> > indicators need this.
> >
> >
> >
> > In some places where I retrofitted star wiring I compromised a
> little
> >
> > by bringing 3 core + E back from each ceiling rose which
> effectively
> >
> > picks up the switched live from existing switches - allowing you
> to
> >
> > automate but retain the existing mains switches. Even on/off
> switches
> >
> > can be utilised as toggles this way. You can also revert to
> standard
> >
> > wiring for when you sell, just by looping back at the consumer
> unit. I
> >
> > would dearly have liked complete star wiring for all lights and
> switches
> >
> > but in some places the consequential mess would have ensured no
> family
> >
> > lineage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Re CAT5 if you put that in too, which you should, then do ensure
> that
> >
> > it is not run adjacent and parallel to mains wiring as this
> induces
> >
> > interference into the signalling. C-Bus pink CAT5 is not
screened.
> Try
> >
> > and cross mains/CAT5 cable runs at right angles if possible and
> with as
> >
> > much separation as possible. You can never have enough spare CAT5
> in
> >
> > a home if you get hooked on HA as it's now used for so many other
> things
> >
> > aside from Ethernet. Run extra cables to each room, particularly
> if
> >
> > later access will be difficult. CAT5 isn't expensive so leave it
> coiled
> >
> > up under floorboards or something, and label the ends. You don't
> need
> >
> > mains rated CAT5 like the C-Bus pink if it's separated from mains
> >
> > wiring. In commercial buildings I believe you need Plenum
> sheathing
> >
> > though for fire safety compliance. Using different colours for
> >
> > functionality is always helpful e.g. identifying Ethernet,
> IDRANet,
> >
> > C-Bus, , EIB/KNX, audio, video, telephone, RS232/485 etc...
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW Some twisted pair (e.g.CAT5) bus topologies work with star
> wiring
> >
> > but some do require a single run or even a loop. This might mean
> >
> > running two CAT5 to each point - or you might get away with
> looping back
> >
> > within the same CAT5 over small distances. In one really awkward
> place
> >
> > in my home I tried to pass C-Bus and IDRANet down different pairs
> within
> >
> > the same 25m run of CAT5 but that didn't work.
> >
> >
> >
> > Increasingly endpoint devices are POE (power over Ethernet)
> capable and
> >
> > in a home with several devices this is best serviced by one
> central POE
> >
> > Ethernet switch and star wiring. Helps cull the wall warts- one
of
> my
> >
> > pet hates. If you don't have sufficient cabling available then
> 3COM
> >
> > / HP make some really small web managed POE network switches that
> can be
> >
> > neatly attached to a wall to expand Ethernet ports should you
need
> a few
> >
> > extra in a particular room. . Available in 4+ port 100Mbps and
> Gigabit
> >
> > versions, they also helpfully offer a pass through RJ45 for non
> Ethernet
> >
> > (e.g. phone, C-Bus/IDRANet or AV use). I ended up using a lot of
> the
> >
> > 3CNJ225 100Mbps ones as they are really cost effective if you buy
> >
> > carefully ~  25 for a web managed POE powered switch ! They just
> mount
> >
> > onto a standard UK single socket back box and provide 4 ports -
> one even
> >
> > offering POE forwarding plus the additional RJ45 pass through.
BTW
> I
> >
> > have some of these spare still if anyone is in need of any...
> >
> >
> >
> > K
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25/11/2012 09:49, Paul Gordon wrote:
> >
> >> Which of course is easy to reconfigure IF you star wire
> everything... - you can just make the appropriate connections back at
> the consumer unit...
> >> :-)
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:  [mailto:] On Behalf Of James - SJ Computers
> >> Sent: 24 November 2012 20:09
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
> >> All lighting circuits do require a neutral (they wouldn't
work if
> they didn't have one). A standard ceiling rose has a loop in / loop
> out for both line and neutral.
> >> Standard lighting control (1/2 way / intermediate switches)
don't
> have a neutral as such. In domestic wiring you'd drop a standard bit
> of twin and earth to the switch and utilise the neural of the pair as
> a switched live, and sheath it accordingly, of course.
> >> Regards
> >> James
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 17:59, "Alan Middleton"  wrote:
> >>> I thought most HA lighting systems required a neutral
which
> isn't the norm in UK lighting. If that is true (and I'm not 100%
> sure) I'd concider rewiring with one present.
> >>> ----- Start Original Message -----
> >>> Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:06:24 +0000
> >>> From: James Reed
> >>> To:
> >>> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring -
advice?
> >>>> Thanks Paul, this is very helpful.
> >>>> I can see that the star wiring may be problematic,
particulary
> >>>> trying to explain it all to SWMBO when there will be
higher
> costs etc.
> >>>> I will pursue the pink CAT5 idea as you suggest. So
far as
> topology
> >>>> goes, I guess the idea would be to terminate as much
as
> possible of
> >>>> it in a single place, but again thinking about
aesthetics could
> you
> >>>> have nodes at each floor with links between them? I
read the
> Idratek
> >>>> wiring guidance which seemed to suggest such a thing
might be
> >>>> possible. Again I want to try and put it in a way
which makes
> it
> >>>> easy for the sparks to follow as I imagine they won't
have much
> experience of this sort of thing.
> >>>> James
> >>>> On 24/11/2012 1:11 pm, Paul Gordon wrote:
> >>>>> Yup, you've answered your own question pretty
well James...
> >>>>> To give yourself the utmost flexibility in your
future
> selection
> >>>>> of what system to go for, if you both star-wire
the mains
> cable
> >>>>> *and* run some control cable into each backbox as
well, I
> think
> >>>>> you've pretty much allowed for any possibility..
and even if
> you
> >>>>> end up not using one or other cable, at least you
have not
> limited
> >>>>> your options in any way, and cable is -
comparatively -
> cheap..
> >>>>> (compared the HA modules you will eventually
connect to them!)
> >>>>> Couple of thoughts..
> >>>>> Star wiring the mains isn't the "norm"
in the UK, so your
> sparkies
> >>>>> may be resistant to the idea... it will increase
cable costs -
> >>>>> both in that you will use more of it - the ring
main topology
> was
> >>>>> thought up to minimise the quantity of cable
required I
> believe, -
> >>>>> and I think you have to uprate the mains cable
you use... -
> your
> >>>>> sparks should know about that assuming they know
their
> onions...
> >>>>> For control cable, even though you seem to have
rejected CBUS
> for
> >>>>> now, you would still get benefit from using
CBUS's pink CAT5
> cable
> >>>>> as your control wiring.. - it's not specific to
CBUS - it's
> just
> >>>>> bog standard CAT5 cable on the inside, - but the
pink outer
> sheath
> >>>>> is certified mains rated, so you are allowed
within the UK
> wiring
> >>>>> regs to bring that cable into the same enclosure
where mains
> is
> >>>>> present... - that is not permitted with
"ordinary"
> >>>>> computer CAT5 cable - which can be obtained quite
a bit
> cheaper...
> >>>>> CAT5 cable at each socket and switch backbox
shoud cate for
> just
> >>>>> about any wired HA system, although I believe
there are a few
> >>>>> options available that require the use of their
own
> proprietary
> >>>>> control cable.. personally I wouldn't give
consideration to
> any HA
> >>>>> system that imposes that demand, but that's just
me... - for
> me,
> >>>>> if CAT5 isn't good enough, then I'm not giving
that system my
> money...
> >>>>> Paul G.
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From:
> >>>>> [mailto: ]
> >>>>> On Behalf Of James Reed
> >>>>> Sent: 23 November 2012 20:00
> >>>>> To: UKHA_D Group
> >>>>> Subject: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring -
advice?
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>> I've just moved in to a largish victorian
terrace. The wiring
> is
> >>>>> not in good condition, and as we are planning to
stay for some
> >>>>> time I'm contemplating having the whole house
rewired.
> >>>>> I'm keen on home automation but haven't really
got the money
> (or
> >>>>> the permission from HQ!) to install all the
modules etc now.
> I'm
> >>>>> interested in a wired system such as Idratek
(have looked at
> Cbus
> >>>>> but seems too expensive by comparison).
> >>>>> I've got some electricians coming round, and
basically what I
> am
> >>>>> asking is what sort of wiring would I need to
give me options
> in
> >>>>> the future to add kit bit by bit? I was thinking
that I would
> need
> >>>>> control wires run along with the mains cabling
for the lights
> at
> >>>>> least - any suggestions how?
> >>>>> ALso should I be considering 'star wiring' of the
lighting
> circuits?
> >>>>> What I'm trying to balance up is making the most
of the
> >>>>> opportunities presented by a rewiring whilst
keeping costs as
> low
> >>>>> as I can. I'm going to have a number of years of
leisure to
> >>>>> install modules etc, but
> >>>>> (hopefully!) only one shot at the rewiring.
> >>>>> I'd be really interested to hear views / opinions
James
> >>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>> ----- End Original Message -----
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> ------------------------------------
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> ------------------------------------
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [7] http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/content/wiring-guide.html
> [18]
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