Re: Contemplating house rewiring - advice?

[Kevin Hawkins <yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Marcus...

Sorry - I didn't describe them very well ... - These £25
switches
are powered by POE - i.e. like your AP - and provide one 'onward' POE
output.  So you need to have an existing POE source switch or
injector.   They're really meant to further expand each port on a
central switch to 4 end ports.  So one cable to a room and 4 Ethernet
ports out from a small plug socket sized device. I used them in some
bedrooms and the dining room and kitchen where they were I deal as I
didn't run enough cabling    You can also power them directly with a
mains adaptor (48V) but that costs about  £13 I believe and
makes it
less of a tidy solution

D-Link make a fairly cost effective POE injector...Cheap and
cheerful but true 802.3af ...and they used to be about a tenner IIRC

Hope you're keeping well and that your solar panels are keeping you
well charged .. although today was a really dull one here...

Kevin


On 26/11/2012 15:34, Marcus Warrington wrote:
> Ã?  I ended up using a lot of the 3CNJ225 100Mbps ones as they
are really
> �   cost effective if you buy carefully ~ £25 for a
web managed POE powered
> Ã?  switch ! They just mount onto a standard UK single socket
back box and
> Ã?  provide 4 ports - one even offering POE forwarding plus the
additional RJ45
> Ã?  pass through. BTW I have some of these spare still if anyone
is in need of any...
>
>
>
> Hi Kevin.
>
>
>
> Where did you manage to find them for £25 ? Iâ??ve
just bought a wireless access point that is POE
>
> compatible and at that price itâ??d be cheaper than buying an
actual power injector !
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin
Hawkins
>
> Sent: 25 November 2012 12:50
>
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> James, like Paul I really do recommend you star wire now if possible
as
>
> it saves so much hassle and cost later when the HA bug bites. If done
>
> correctly you can easily revert a home to normal operation when you
sell
>
> , all from the consumer unit. There's a really good info on the group
>
> associated website re wiring if you haven't already seen it ....
>
>
>
> http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/content/wiring-guide.html
>
>
>
> Just one addition to Paul's comment below..Assuming you just star wire
1
>
> cable of twin and earth to the switch then you will not have a problem
>
> if your HA switch replacement requires switched live, neutral and
>
> earth. Although not often encountered if you install anything that
>
> requires live, switched live, netural and earth then you will need to
>
> install three core + earth. Some fancier switches with displays /
>
> indicators need this.
>
>
>
> In some places where I retrofitted star wiring I compromised a little
>
> by bringing 3 core + E back from each ceiling rose which effectively
>
> picks up the switched live from existing switches - allowing you to
>
> automate but retain the existing mains switches. Even on/off switches
>
> can be utilised as toggles this way. You can also revert to standard
>
> wiring for when you sell, just by looping back at the consumer unit. I
>
> would dearly have liked complete star wiring for all lights and
switches
>
> but in some places the consequential mess would have ensured no family
>
> lineage.
>
>
>
> Re CAT5 if you put that in too, which you should, then do ensure that
>
> it is not run adjacent and parallel to mains wiring as this induces
>
> interference into the signalling. C-Bus pink CAT5 is not screened. Try
>
> and cross mains/CAT5 cable runs at right angles if possible and with
as
>
> much separation as possible. You can never have enough spare CAT5 in
>
> a home if you get hooked on HA as it's now used for so many other
things
>
> aside from Ethernet. Run extra cables to each room, particularly if
>
> later access will be difficult. CAT5 isn't expensive so leave it
coiled
>
> up under floorboards or something, and label the ends. You don't need
>
> mains rated CAT5 like the C-Bus pink if it's separated from mains
>
> wiring. In commercial buildings I believe you need Plenum sheathing
>
> though for fire safety compliance. Using different colours for
>
> functionality is always helpful e.g. identifying Ethernet, IDRANet,
>
> C-Bus, , EIB/KNX, audio, video, telephone, RS232/485 etc...
>
>
>
> BTW Some twisted pair (e.g.CAT5) bus topologies work with star wiring
>
> but some do require a single run or even a loop. This might mean
>
> running two CAT5 to each point - or you might get away with looping
back
>
> within the same CAT5 over small distances. In one really awkward place
>
> in my home I tried to pass C-Bus and IDRANet down different pairs
within
>
> the same 25m run of CAT5 but that didn't work.
>
>
>
> Increasingly endpoint devices are POE (power over Ethernet) capable
and
>
> in a home with several devices this is best serviced by one central
POE
>
> Ethernet switch and star wiring. Helps cull the wall warts- one of my
>
> pet hates. If you don't have sufficient cabling available then 3COM
>
> / HP make some really small web managed POE network switches that can
be
>
> neatly attached to a wall to expand Ethernet ports should you need a
few
>
> extra in a particular room. . Available in 4+ port 100Mbps and Gigabit
>
> versions, they also helpfully offer a pass through RJ45 for non
Ethernet
>
> (e.g. phone, C-Bus/IDRANet or AV use). I ended up using a lot of the
>
> 3CNJ225 100Mbps ones as they are really cost effective if you buy
>
> carefully ~ £25 for a web managed POE powered switch ! They
just mount
>
> onto a standard UK single socket back box and provide 4 ports - one
even
>
> offering POE forwarding plus the additional RJ45 pass through. BTW I
>
> have some of these spare still if anyone is in need of any...
>
>
>
> K
>
>
>
> On 25/11/2012 09:49, Paul Gordon wrote:
>
>> Which of course is easy to reconfigure IF you star wire
everything... - you can just make the appropriate connections back at the
consumer unit...
>> :-)
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of James - SJ Computers
>> Sent: 24 November 2012 20:09
>> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
>> All lighting circuits do require a neutral (they wouldn't work if
they didn't have one). A standard ceiling rose has a loop in / loop out for
both line and neutral.
>> Standard lighting control (1/2 way / intermediate switches) don't
have a neutral as such. In domestic wiring you'd drop a standard bit of
twin and earth to the switch and utilise the neural of the pair as a
switched live, and sheath it accordingly, of course.
>> Regards
>> James
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On 24 Nov 2012, at 17:59, "Alan Middleton"
<yahoo@xxxxxxx<mailto:yahoo%40arctic-circle.org>>
wrote:
>>> I thought most HA lighting systems required a neutral which
isn't the norm in UK lighting. If that is true (and I'm not 100% sure) I'd
concider rewiring with one present.
>>> ----- Start Original Message -----
>>> Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:06:24 +0000
>>> From: James Reed <james@xxxxxxx<mailto:james%40familyreed.org.uk>>
>>> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring - advice?
>>>> Thanks Paul, this is very helpful.
>>>> I can see that the star wiring may be problematic,
particulary
>>>> trying to explain it all to SWMBO when there will be
higher costs etc.
>>>> I will pursue the pink CAT5 idea as you suggest. So far as
topology
>>>> goes, I guess the idea would be to terminate as much as
possible of
>>>> it in a single place, but again thinking about aesthetics
could you
>>>> have nodes at each floor with links between them? I read
the Idratek
>>>> wiring guidance which seemed to suggest such a thing might
be
>>>> possible. Again I want to try and put it in a way which
makes it
>>>> easy for the sparks to follow as I imagine they won't have
much experience of this sort of thing.
>>>> James
>>>> On 24/11/2012 1:11 pm, Paul Gordon wrote:
>>>>> Yup, you've answered your own question pretty well
James...
>>>>> To give yourself the utmost flexibility in your future
selection
>>>>> of what system to go for, if you both star-wire the
mains cable
>>>>> *and* run some control cable into each backbox as
well, I think
>>>>> you've pretty much allowed for any possibility.. and
even if you
>>>>> end up not using one or other cable, at least you have
not limited
>>>>> your options in any way, and cable is - comparatively
- cheap..
>>>>> (compared the HA modules you will eventually connect
to them!)
>>>>> Couple of thoughts..
>>>>> Star wiring the mains isn't the "norm" in
the UK, so your sparkies
>>>>> may be resistant to the idea... it will increase cable
costs -
>>>>> both in that you will use more of it - the ring main
topology was
>>>>> thought up to minimise the quantity of cable required
I believe, -
>>>>> and I think you have to uprate the mains cable you
use... - your
>>>>> sparks should know about that assuming they know their
onions...
>>>>> For control cable, even though you seem to have
rejected CBUS for
>>>>> now, you would still get benefit from using CBUS's
pink CAT5 cable
>>>>> as your control wiring.. - it's not specific to CBUS -
it's just
>>>>> bog standard CAT5 cable on the inside, - but the pink
outer sheath
>>>>> is certified mains rated, so you are allowed within
the UK wiring
>>>>> regs to bring that cable into the same enclosure where
mains is
>>>>> present... - that is not permitted with
"ordinary"
>>>>> computer CAT5 cable - which can be obtained quite a
bit cheaper...
>>>>> CAT5 cable at each socket and switch backbox shoud
cate for just
>>>>> about any wired HA system, although I believe there
are a few
>>>>> options available that require the use of their own
proprietary
>>>>> control cable.. personally I wouldn't give
consideration to any HA
>>>>> system that imposes that demand, but that's just me...
- for me,
>>>>> if CAT5 isn't good enough, then I'm not giving that
system my money...
>>>>> Paul G.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>]
>>>>> On Behalf Of James Reed
>>>>> Sent: 23 November 2012 20:00
>>>>> To: UKHA_D Group
>>>>> Subject: [ukha_d] Contemplating house rewiring -
advice?
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> I've just moved in to a largish victorian terrace. The
wiring is
>>>>> not in good condition, and as we are planning to stay
for some
>>>>> time I'm contemplating having the whole house rewired.
>>>>> I'm keen on home automation but haven't really got the
money (or
>>>>> the permission from HQ!) to install all the modules
etc now. I'm
>>>>> interested in a wired system such as Idratek (have
looked at Cbus
>>>>> but seems too expensive by comparison).
>>>>> I've got some electricians coming round, and basically
what I am
>>>>> asking is what sort of wiring would I need to give me
options in
>>>>> the future to add kit bit by bit? I was thinking that
I would need
>>>>> control wires run along with the mains cabling for the
lights at
>>>>> least - any suggestions how?
>>>>> ALso should I be considering 'star wiring' of the
lighting circuits?
>>>>> What I'm trying to balance up is making the most of
the
>>>>> opportunities presented by a rewiring whilst keeping
costs as low
>>>>> as I can. I'm going to have a number of years of
leisure to
>>>>> install modules etc, but
>>>>> (hopefully!) only one shot at the rewiring.
>>>>> I'd be really interested to hear views / opinions
>>>>> James
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>> ----- End Original Message -----
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> ------------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> ------------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------

<*> Join the Automated Home Forums
http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbulletin/