RE: Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

["Neil Ball" <neilball@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

My experience shows that cables need to be reasonably matched for many
of
the baluns to work and more importantly you also need direct connections
vi=
a
the Cat5e - no joins and direct crimped connectors rather than punching
dow=
n
onto modules and using patch cables (having been to some training courses
hosted by Jeff Boccacio then I=92ve realised just how much stress is
placed=
on
the kit to transmit the high data rates required by HDMI).

=20

I=92ve had installs where conventional baluns simply would not work at all
over modest distances (10-12m) no matter what balun sets I used (and I have
gone through many types over the last few years). In these cases I have
sometimes rescued the situation by moving to more expensive single cable
baluns but these sacrifice other elements (IR control or audio for
example)=
.
I would still recommend a conventional single cable balun and possibly use
the other cable for IR if you need to. I would also go for a decent make
rather than the cheapest (Grandbeing are a major manufacturer who also
re-badge for many other resellers). This way you avoid any issues with
cabl=
e
lengths leading to difficulties but don=92t have to break the bank.

=20

As soon as you move away from conventional baluns then things get much
easier and much more reliable but all at a cost!

=20

Neil B.

=20

=20

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Paul Gordon
Sent: 12 May 2011 16:57
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

=20

=20=20

Just a thought...

I presume it's fairly important for both CAT5 cables running to one of the
2-cable units to be of equal (or at least *very* similar lengths) to avoid
skew between the parts of the HDMI signal going down each run?.... Any idea
how sensitive these are and how much tolerance there might be for different
lengths between the 2 CAT cables?

I ask because it has occurred to me that I *did* put a spare CAT5 run in
th=
e
other month... - but it goes to the other end of a 3m long run of kitchen
cupboards... I don't think it will be possible to feed it back those 3
metres, since it pops up through the floor and runs behind a fitted floor
unit, so the only option (if indeed it is even an option) would be to
exten=
d
it back along that run (on the underside of the wall units). Thus I could
get it to the required point without too much difficulty, but it would end
up being some 6m longer that the other one... (hmmm... I wonder if I could
equalise them at the other end?)

Cheers.

Paul G.

-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behal=
f
Of
Neil Ball
Sent: 12 May 2011 16:46
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

In that case I would not bother with trying to run the extra cable and go
for a single cable extender. At least with HDBaseT you can have HDMI,
Ethernet and IR control without needing to run any more cables just now. If
you hunt around you can find some deals that help reduce the costs & it
wil=
l
literally be plug and play to get up and running.=20

Neil B.

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behal=
f
Of
Paul Gordon
Sent: 12 May 2011 16:26
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

Couldn't disagree with any of those recommendations... the problem is, I
ha=
d
the relevant section of the kitchen floor up about 3 months ago... - and I
*did* run 1 extra pink CBUS CAT5 cable through while I was there (used for
its intended purpose now of course) - obviously I'm now kicking myself that
I didn't bung in a few extra spares whilst I was at it.. but whilst there,
=
I
could see just how packed that subfloor area was with lagged pipes, cables,
builders rubble, changes in level etc. Having seen how little empty space
was down there, I just *know* it's going to be horrendously difficult to
tr=
y
to feed / fish cables through... - even with my rods....

And a HDMI cable, - being thicker, less flexible & with a chunky plug
on th=
e
end will be even harder to push through than a CAT5 would be...

I can't get the floor up again of course, - not without ruining it, and
since it all interlocks, removing almost the entire room (engineered oak
T&=
G
planks). Since it's only been down about 3 months, that's just not going to
happen... :-(

Oh why didn't I observe the UKHA mantra??!?!?

Cheers.

Paul G.

-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf
Of
Neil Ball
Sent: 12 May 2011 14:51
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

If it=92s only 10 metres and you are going to run a cable in any case then
=
I
would suggest getting a HDMI V1.4 cable for the kitchen along with an extra
Cat5e for future use. You can then guarantee HDMI without any faffing with
baluns and use the one of the Cat5e for IR if not using wireless IR
senders=
.

I would only use baluns where there was no possibility of using a
=93proper=
=94
HDMI cable either due to distance or because there was no opportunity to
ru=
n
the HDMI cable. The simpler the chain between source and display the
better=
,
especially with HDMI and all of the issues it presents.

Neil B.

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf
Of
Paul Gordon
Sent: 12 May 2011 14:02
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

That's a lovely solution and a lovely bit of kit, - but it's not so much
"straying" - more a case of "sprinting at full pelt"
into my aforementioned
"=A3stupid money" territory! - currently =A3420 PER END! - so a
single
point-to-point pair would cost me as much as the new amplifier!

I don't mind paying a "sensible" amount, but it's taken several
years (and =
a
fair few new handbags) to get authorisation to buy a new amp, there's no
wa=
y
I could justify spending DOUBLE what I'd said just to get HD 10 metres
away=
!

Looks like this weekend I'll be looking at how I can try to fish a new CAT5
run to where I need it.. - I know it's not going to be easy...

Cheers

Paul G.

-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf
Of
Tim Hawes
Sent: 12 May 2011 13:30
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:ukha_d%40yahoogroups.com>=20
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Hi-Def video senders (long post, sorry!)

Hi Paul,

Not sure if this is the same thing Neil mentioned but have a look at this:
http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/New-Products/Just-Add-Power-HDMI-over-IP-2G-=
E
uropean-Launch.html

Basically HDMI over IP, so only one Cat5 cable needed.
I thought **everyone** cabled cat5 to their kitchen though...
;-)

HTH,

Tim.

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Paul Gordon
<paul_gordon@xxxxxxx <mailto:paul_gordon%40hotmail.com>
<mailto:paul_gordon%40hotmail.com>
<mailto:paul_gordon%40hotmail.com>
>wrote:

> Hi Peeps, having finally got a nice shiny new TiVo from Virgin, I'm
> consequently ditching my (much hated) Sky+HD box, and at the same time
> having to revisit how I distribute the signal from the lounge to the
> kitchen... a number of possible options are on the table and I like to
seek
> the groups collective wisdom & advice...
>
> I have SWMBO approval to purchase a new Home Cinema amp for the
lounge,
and
> I'm looking at the Denon AVR3311... there are a couple of features
that I
> particularly like on this model, that I think will be very useful in
my
> quest to finally distribute a "decent" picture to the
kitchen TV, which i=
s
> full-HD capable:
> - It has 2 x HDMI outputs, & fully supports using both
concurrently for
> separate displays
> - It supports HDMI pass-through whilst in standby (so I don't have to
hav=
e
> the amp powered on all the time)
> I need to check on a couple of specifics before I purchase: - it also
has
a
> set of component outputs, but I need to confirm how that's implemented
to
> determine if that's also something I could use to distribute HD to a
2nd
> display (e.g. does that also support pass-through in standby?)
>
> I currently use a set of KAT5 modules to send S-Video from the SCART
on
the
> Sky box over a single CAT5 to the kitchen. The new TiVo has a SCART
> available, but as yet I don't know what signals are available from it,
so
I
> don't know yet if it outputs S-Video (in which case I _could_ just
continue
> to use the same method).
>
> Since the source & display are both HD capable, & have spare
HDMI ports,
> I'd
> love to use a HDMI signal, but - and this is the bit where Mark McCall
will
> no doubt laugh his way out of his undergarments... - all HDMI-CAT5
sender=
s
> that I'm aware of require TWO CAT5 runs, and I don't currently have
enoug=
h
> CAT5 runs to the location in the kitchen where the TV is situated...
:-0
> (I
> can hear him chuckling already!)
>
> So as I see it, my choices as far as source signal go are:
> 1:Stick with S-video - issue there is I'm not 100% certain the TiVo
> provides
> it on its SCART
> 2:Use Component from the new amp - issue there is I'm not certain it
can
be
> used in standby, & I'd prefer not to *have* to leave the amp on
all the
> time
> 3:Use HDMI - Issue here is I don't have 2 x CAT5 runs between the TX
& RX
> ends
>
> It's probably not impossible to get a new CAT5 run to the TV location,
bu=
t
> it's definitely a PITA, & a load of additional work I'd prefer not
to hav=
e
> to do...
>
> The TiVo source only has a single HDMI, currently connected to the
living
> room TV. My plan would be to replace the current amp with the 3311,
connect
> all HDMI sources directly to that. 1 of the HDMI outputs from the amp
the=
n
> goes to the living room TV, leaving a spare HDMI output available
which
> carries the same signal as the first one, & thus could be used to
feed th=
e
> kitchen. Since both HDMI's (allegedly) passthrough while the amp is in
> standby, I don't have to rely on the amp always being powered on for
the
> remote TV to get a feed... There is also a _possibility_ of having a
> component output available for the same purpose depending on the
passthough
> operation... (I'm not counting on that though).
>
> So assuming I decide to tap off the 2nd HDMI... - I can either go
wired
> (but
> then I'd definitely need to retro-fit another CAT5 run), or there are
> wireless HDMI extenders available... (for a greater cost of course).
Look=
s
> like wired HDMI-CAT5 units can be got from as little as =A330-odd at
the
> cheap
> end, with mid-range units available for well under a ton... Wireless
ones
> OTOH, look like they only start at about =A3180-ish and go all the way
up=
to
> =A3stupid money....
>
> Wireless would be a *lot* easier to retro-fit, and most also provide
the
> return IR signal too.. such as this one:
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/wireless-hdmi-video-sender-kit-503801
- but I jus=
t
> have an intense aversion to wireless video senders based on all my
previous
> experiences of them (i,e, not one has ever worked to my entire
> satisfaction).
>
> So, after all that rambling, I'll get to the point of my post, - which
is
> to
> ask specifically if anyone has direct personal experience of ANY HDMI
video
> senders, either wired or wireless, and would care to offer
> comments/opinions
> on them to aid my decision making process?... Or, does anyone already
hav=
e
> a
> Denon 3311 & could answer my remaining questions regarding its
operation?
>
> And the obvious advice to come out of all this is: RUN MORE CAT5 CABLE
THAN
> YOU THINK YOU'LL EVER NEED!!!! :-)
>
> Cheers.
>
> Paul G.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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