RE: Help to 'sell' me CBUS

["Brian Smith" <briview@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kevin

Thanks for the detailed advice.

The dimmers vs relays is a good point but i'm not sure how I can best
utilise them.  One of the key draws for me is the ability to tweak the
ligh=
t
levels to compensate for getting the number of fittings wrong.  And being
able to fade between scenes.  Both of which loose their effect completely
with relays.  Having said that, the effect of Part L of the regs is a
concern.  Do the dimmers have a 'binary mode' where they are just on or off
so you can mix or change the config once the inspector has gone :-)=20

I had assumed the 6 button switches were the way to go.  Mainly on cost per
button and the assumption that a spare was always a better situation over
'bugger, wish I'd bought the 6 button' after thought.  Where you have a 2
o=
r
4 button, is that because you only need that number of scenes or because
yo=
u
have additional means of control via a PC or other CBUS logic?

WRT to PC control, what's the best way to go?  I see there is the USB
interface at the snip of =A3300 odd but I vaguely remember a discussion
aro=
und
another bit of kit that had other functionality too.  I just can't recall
what it was.

Thanks

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Kevin Hawkins
Sent: 30 October 2010 14:50
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Help to 'sell' me CBUS

Hi Brian,

Just a couple of comments as you consider...  (I'm a C-Bus fan)

The cost of C-Bus is really in the switches and not the dimmers.=20=20
The cost per dimmer channel is pretty good but you can end up with quite=20
a large amount of fairly expensive switches should you look to replace=20
all your existing ones.

Initially I think most people specify dimmers for lights rather=20
than relays, I certainly did and later have moved some to relays as I=20
never needed the dim capability. Relays are cheaper and provide more=20
channels in the same physical space cf dimmers. Also carefully consider=20
the compatibility of dimmers with future directions in low energy lighting.

I mistakenly thought the 6 button switches were better value and=20
offered more features and so I installed quite a lot.   In practice I've=20
found that four button , or even two , are better accepted by the family=20
as the button allocations are easier to remember, especially  in the=20
dark.   There are clip on pre labelled caps available for Saturn buttons=20
should you wish.  DLT's are very neat;  the UK 'square' style has one=20
less button than the Aus or USA ones.

Consider what automation you need and make sure the system supports=20
it.  Scene setting is provided directly by switches but more advanced=20
time scheduling, logic interaction or PC connectivity needs extra=20
bits..  A basic switching  system can be setup without a PC using the=20
C-Bus learn capability but in practice a PC interface and C-Bus Toolkit=20
software (free) will invariably be needed. An installer could be used to=20
avoid the cost of the PC interface.

If you encounter a hard to wire (retrofit) situation wireless C-Bus=20
Saturn switches are available and are quite cost effective as you get=20
the switch , wireless transceiver and two dimmer(s) within one switch,=20
but you'll also need one wireless gateway.    A handheld (wireless - not=20
IR) control is then available that can support any light on your=20
wireless or wired network (group in C-Bus parlance) .  Wireless switches=20
need deeper back boxes than you likely already have.

K


On 30/10/2010 09:12, Brian Smith wrote:
> Hi Ben
>
> Thanks for the feedback.  All good points and I agree that the Saturn
> switches are the nicest looking.  Have you looked at the DLT versions
at
> all?  I wondered if they would be useful in increasing the usage of
each
> button as (I think) the function could change depending on conditions
/
> button presses.  If you're not using DLTs, how do you physically label
each
> button with it's function?
>
> Also, can you elaborate on the functions you have buttons configured
for?
Ie
> if I bought the 6 button versions, do I configure each button as a
scene
> (which I'm assuming would limit to 5 scenes and off) or do you have
buttons
> that could allow you to cycle through scenes (as I have now on the
Futronix
> unit).
>
> WRT overall control, I am definitely looking for something like IPAD
> control.  This would mainly be for music control of Squeezebox but
would
> also like to be able to integrate heating and lighting control too.  I
have
> looked HomeSeer and HS Touch in the past but have yet to make a
purchase.
> Does this factor in to how you would use CBUS or just the selection of
CBUS
> vs any other product?
>
> Another question from an installers perspective.  Having spoken to my
> sparky, he has not used CBUS but has used RAKO and is happy to 'give
it a
> go'.  Would you expect this to cause any issues?  If I do the 'design'
> should the install and commissioning be straightforward between us? I
wasn't
> sure if there were any installer only software / hardware elements
that
> would make it difficult without.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Brian
>
> PS.  Would love to come and see a demo but we are Surrey way so it
would
be
> a bit of a punt unless we could lose the rugrats :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Ben McCormack
> Sent: 29 October 2010 21:19
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Help to 'sell' me CBUS
>
> Brian
>
> I have installed cbus so will try and give you my views.
>
> I initially based my decision on what switches looked best. At the end
of
> the day this is the bit that you interact with everyday. Of all of the
> central lighting systems the cbus Saturns were the nicest and liked by
my
> wife as well.
>
> I would suggest you work out how many circuits you plan to have in
total.
> Personally if you are 8 or under I would suggest cbus will be
uneconomica=
l
> and would look at Lutron or something similar - Note I have not done
the
> calculations but thats my general feeling.
>
> We have large open plan rooms in the house. We have 10 zones in the
loung=
e
> and cbus allows us to have multiple lighting configs triggered from
multiple
> switches.
>
> It is the same setup in the kitchen with multiple zones.
>
> Cbus does link well to Comfort, I have the link but not made use of it
> yet.Planning to do all lights off when the Alarm is armed etc etc.
>
> Also consider if you want to control the whole setup from a iPad or
similar.
> I have purchased a Pronto TSU9600 and currently playing with a cbus
modul=
e
> that allows cbus control from the remote.
>
> Overall I have been very happy with cbus. It is not cheap but give a
lot
of
> functionality. Happy to give you a demo if you are around
hertfordshire.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 29 Oct 2010, at 16:36, Brian Smith wrote:
>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>> For years and years I have been promising myself that when the
> opportunity came I would go for a CBUS install but now that that
opportunity
> is here (from a two story rear and side extension) I'm getting cold
feet
> with regards to what I actually gain from it.
>>> I currently have a 4 channel dimmer module from Futronix so
like the
> functionality of a single button controlling pre-set levels on all 4
> channels etc.  The extension plans will create a largely open plan
ground
> floor with living, dining and kitchen areas so I was assuming that
CBUS
> would allow me to have multiple switch points (at entry / exit for
example)
> that can set scenes throughout the whole space but the detail on what
is
> possible with CBUS is a bit of a mystery to me.
>>> So I was hoping a few kind souls on this list with practical
experience
> of cbus could describe the functionality they have created (mainly
with
> regard to lighting but I am also interested in heating and audio
control)
> and whether it is all delivered with cbus or in combination with other
ki=
t
> like Comfort etc.  I just need a few examples of real world use really
to
> hook onto and sell to the wife :-)
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Brian
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