Re: Re: Forget the webbrick

[Ake Hedman <akhe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

As always Kevin a good and insightful analysis.

I have used several other ethernet based boards in the past for=20
different solutions (I work as an embedded programmer). Most of these=20
solutions require a custom board to be made in addition to the original=20
board. This board do signal conditioning or other real world=20
interfacing. This cost always add to the total solution cost. So for me=20
a low price on the control board is good as it allows me to put some=20
extra money on the custom hardware.

A lot of money is saved for a project is saved if a modular design can=20
be found. To reuse hardware and knowledge saves big money. Thats the big=20
saving with this thing IMHO. Its a good, no odds starting building block.

Then its software. Nothing of this is for people seeking a turn key=20
solution. To be useful for end users we who have the programming=20
knowledge (and interest in such things) must use pieces like this as=20
building blocks to build "lego" devices that can be used without
a lot=20
of low level technical knowledge. The webbrick have the state machine=20
and we at VSCP have the EDA (Event-Decision-Action) decision matrix in=20
which a user tell the module to perform a well specified action when an=20
event is received. After this has been done the unit works as a self=20
contained unit.  We can give end users a common interface to this even=20
if modules have very different functionality.

Personally I think SMTP and HTTP support in limited modules like this is=20
of very little use. It can be fun but IMHO its better to have the HMI=20
stuff on a computer and hide all the "strange stuff" for the user
that=20
want to set up a new device.

Cheers
/Ake

Kevin Hawkins wrote:

>     I think this is a key point re useability...(below).  I haven't
seen
> the device until now so I could be wrong.. but here's my first
> thoughts....(wow)   and my second thoughts....The device provides a
> great platform at an exceptional price but it is essentially a web
> interface page to a device with a lot of I/O capability and if you
wish
> to go beyond altering the web pages and uploading them via ftp then
you
> will need some C skills and a good understanding of the code.  It
> appears to be a small powerful development board example for
Microchips
> tcp stack..., even down to the 'prototyping add on' -  great for the
> techies and a most welcome addition , at an attractive price.
>
>     What could be added is an interface via xAP or xPL, or a HomeSeer
> plugin to make the product more accessible to the people perhaps ??
>
>     Take a look also at the Netiom
> http://www.phaedrusltd.com/pages/html/netiom.html
by Phaedrus (this one
> I have seen in the flesh) . This is much the same sort of idea but
with
> a lot more user accessibilty/features built in. It has roughly the
same
> webserver capabilities, 16 inputs, 16 outputs, Ethernet, serial port
and
> 4 channel A/D convertors. But it also has counters,  email alerts, a
> compact tcp based status and control protocol, configured via a very
> capable front end application for setting things like high latches, 
low
> latches , thresholds and names.   The tcp based status protocol is
> probably of the most interest /significance as a way of communicating
> between a PC application and the device via Ethernet. The device will
> also email you anywhere should its inputs match a certain state.  The
> I/O on the Netiom is also presented on screw terminals rather than the
> IDC connectors the above device appears to have which is perhaps
easier
> for the hobbyist.  The Netiom is more expensive at =A379 though so
=A330 =
more.
>     Lastly of course if you are into xAP then a variant of the Netiom
is
> available 'imminently' with embedded xAP.  The really nice thing here
is
> you have a true standalone (no PC required) solution for HA usage that
> delivers realtime status and control over Ethernet. Taking the PC out
of
> the loop is in my experience the most valuable step towards stability
> and response times.   Switch inputs to say Netiom (which has included
> debounce firmware) could even be used to switch C-Bus or X10.=20
> Implementing xAP and BSC in the Netiom also means that the device
> becomes plug and play with say HomeSeer (using the xAP plugin) and xAP
> Desktop etc. Additionally all the I/O points have friendly names and
can
> be wildcard addressed.  A plugin between MainLobby and Homeseer and
also
> a xAP plugin (beta) for XLobby is also available so some great touch
> screen / HA software is available out of the box for a xAP Netiom.
>
>     Now it's horses for courses and the pricepoint of the Telmatics
> product is amazingly good - the device creates a good (great) building
> block for the more experienced developer but it will be more
challenging
> to most. The Netiom has some extra features that address this and
> certainly the device is more accessible to most being useable out of
the
> box in some existing software.  I can't comment on the web brick cos I
> haven't looked in any detail but I think it has some inbuilt 'smarts'
> above both these solutions that allow for logical actions (if this
goes
> high then do this.. type of thing) and I believe they also
interoperate
> as netwoked devices in a standalone setup which could be most
powerful.
> BTW the VIOM (the old UKHA favourite) from Phaedrus also has a lot of
> inbuilt 'smarts', including timers - allowing for logic and timed
> actions across its I/O ... but the Viom is a serial connected device.
>
>    Lots of useful little building blocks now....    Kevin
>
>
>
>
> solentelectricalservices wrote:
>
> >ok guys, before we all piss our pants in excitment (too late for
me)
> >how do we turn this fantastic product into something we can all
use.
> >As an installer all these fancy programming languages are way
above
> >me so this product is usless. But if anyone can make it do some of
> >the things I have in mind then I would be interested in talking to
> >them and paying them. please feel free to email me.
> >--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Ian" <ian@f...> wrote:
> >=20
> >
> >>Holy Crap on a stick - NOW your talking!
> >>
> >>Interesting to see how much can be done with it - one of the
> >>=20=20=20
> >>
> >webbrick's big
> >=20
> >
> >>selling points was the programmability, but this thing is
using
> >>=20=20=20
> >>
> >the same
> >=20
> >
> >>processor on board.
> >>
> >>Ian.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Ake Hedman [mailto:akhe@b...]
> >>Sent: 15 March 2005 17:16
> >>To: UKHA List
> >>Subject: [ukha_d] Forget the webbrick
> >>
> >>
> >>Forget the webbrick. This (
> >><http://total-telematics.com/shop/index.php?
> >>=20=20=20
> >>
> >main_page=3Dproduct_info&cPath=3D1_3
> >=20
> >
> >>&products_id=3D30>
> >>) is what I call value for money!!!! :-D
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>/Ake
> >>
> >>--
> >> ---
> >>Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer) eurosource,
> >>=20=20=20
> >>
> >Brattbergav=E4gen 17,
> >=20
> >
> >>820 50 LOS, Sweden
> >>Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
> >>Company home: http://www.eurosource.se=20=20=20=20=20
> >>Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com Personal
homepage:
> >>http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>=20=20=20
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=20
> >
>
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--=20
---
Ake Hedman (YAP - Yet Another Programmer)
eurosource, Brattbergav=E4gen 17, 820 50 LOS, Sweden
Phone: (46) 657 413430 Cellular: (46) 73 84 84 102
Company home: http://www.eurosource.se=20=20=20=20=20=20
Kryddor/Te/Kaffe: http://www.brattberg.com
Personal homepage: http://www.eurosource.se/akhe
Automated home: http://www.vscp.org



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