Fw: CBus / X10 Opinions please

[Gareth Cook <g@xxxxxxxxxx>]

A few points I can put forward, having both X10 and CBUS (mostly CBUS=20
now).

For the lighting, CBUS is the way forward - with the CBUS switches you=20
know what is on, wherever you want. With X10, a momentary switch is hard=20
wired, with no real status response (or even guaranteed status).

For the mains (within a house) X10 is more flexible - unless you go down=20
the wireless CBUS route which can be very expensive indeed. With a mains=20
socket, you dont really know whats going to be plugged in, whereas=20
lighting is fixed.

Using Comfort which has an X10 and a CBUS interface, CBUS switches can now=
=20
control X10 devices - Comfort monitors X10 commands and sets the status on=
=20
the buttons accordingly, as well as actioning X10 commands.

For my requirements as I have Comfort, it currently handles ALL the
logic=20
in the house - there is a HomeSeer PC for logging only (logs Comfort and=20
CBUS and X10). Power cuts arent a problem with no PC involved, and I'm=20
tempted to UPS some parts of the CBUS system :-)

CBUS pics at http://palmlodge.com

G.

Gareth Cook
Tools and Process Architect
IBM SWG Sales - Lotus Park, Staines, TW18 3AG
Office: +44 (0)1784 445166 - Mobile: +44 (0)7980 445166
AIM Chat : TheBoyG - MSN Chat : chat@xxxxxxx
email: g@xxxxxxx

=20
----- Forwarded by Gareth Cook/UK/IBM on 16/08/2005 13:55 -----

Discussion
Main Topic

ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Today 13:19

.
Subject:
.
RE: [ukha_d] CBus / X10 Opinions please
.
Category:



Seconded, - and would add the following:
=20
Definately put CAT5 wiring in now for CBUS, then you can easily
implement=20
CBUS as/when you want to, - but, - I would recommend that you do this with=
=20
the "proper" CBUS pink CAT5 cable... - Yes this does cost more
than=20
bog-standard grey stuff (probably about double), - but it's still not a=20
huge expense, - especially in the context of the cost of having a whole=20
house built! - =A350 instead of =A325 is hardly going to make a difference=
=20
there is it! - The pink stuff does have a couple of advantages, -=20
primarily that the pink outer jacket is mains rated, - this means it can=20
be used in the same backbox as mains cable without the physical seperation=
=20
requirements that the regs dictate between mains/Low Voltage cables in the=
=20
same enclosure. (I imagine that being a new build, you will be subject
to=20
inspections of your wiring, so I guess conforming to the regs is
probably=20
an important consideration in your case...). Also, the different colour=20
does make it a lot easier to manage back at the "node 0" point,
-=20
especially if you are also running lots of other CAT5 runs in grey cable=20
for the usual structured wiring purposes...
=20
Secondly, I would suggest that your question is erroneous... - why
choose=20
strictly one or the other? - they are not mutually exclusive. Why not
use=20
whichever technology is best suited to each individual application... -=20
X10 is undoubtedly cheaper(*) than CBUS, and maybe all that is justifiable=
=20
in certain rooms? - also, there's no doubting the convenience of just=20
being able to bung in an X10 plug-in lamp or appliance module anywhere you=
=20
like, at a moments notice and not have to worry about wiring contraints to=
=20
the dedicated bus (like when you decide you want to put a new table lamp=20
somewhere...). There are numerous ways that CBUS and X10 can be bridged, -=
=20
you don't say what your HA controller is, but most of them can be=20
connected up to a CBUS network to control it (A CBUS PCI module provides=20
an RS232 port that can be used to control the CBUS loads for example).
=20
(*) - Although X10 is cheaper than CBUS, does it really work out *that*=20
much cheaper in the long run, given that if you decide to upgrade to
CBUS=20
later on, then likely any investment you have made in the X10 kit will
be=20
wasted... - As I always say: "To buy cheap is to buy twice"... -
Comparing=
=20
the up-front hardware costs, - and if you avoid using some of the more=20
"sexy" CBUS items (like the Saturn switches and the touchscreens
for=20
instance), then I think it is probably possible to to achieve CBUS=20
lighting for not much more than about three times the cost of X10 per=20
channel... - A quick check on the web shows that X10 DIN modules can be=20
had for about =A325 if bought in 5-packs, and a 4-channel CBUS dimmer can
b=
e=20
had for about =A3370 (=A392/channel) - however the CBUS costs can be
reduce=
d=20
substantially if you attend the 2-day CBUS training course in Coventry,=20
since you will not only walk away from the course with a load of CBUS
kit=20
(worth more than the course costs!), but you should also then be
entitled=20
to the CBUS discount programme which affords you significant savings (I=20
can't remember the percentages right now, but is something like a
quarter=20
off the price)....
=20
One other potential advantage that I have heard mentioned elsewhere, is=20
that CBUS is counted as an energy management system, and therefore excuses=
=20
you from the nanny-like requirements to use those poxy low energy light=20
bulbs that I believe is now mandatory in new builds... (I'm not sure of=20
the facts of this situation, it's just something I have seen mentioned
on=20
the selfbuild site..)
=20
Lastly of course, is the fact that X10 isn't really going anywhere any=20
more... - the US seems to have a much more active X10 market, and so
they=20
do seem to get a fair amount of progress, new R&D, new modules being=20
released etc... Over here, we seem to get very little in the way of=20
development of the X10 technologies... - it takes *years* for new
modules=20
to trickle out out in UK format... - how many new X10 modules have there=20
been in the UK in the last 5 years for instance... - I can only think of a=
=20
few....  Whereas CBUS for example appears to be taking off like a rocket=20
these days... - hardly a year goes by without a slew of new CBUS modules=20
being released.. - all of which is just my opinion of coourse, but from my=
=20
perspective, CBUS is the system with the greatest-looking future...
=20
HTH
=20
Paul G.
=20
=20

________________________________

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx on behalf of Jim Noble
Sent: Tue 16/08/2005 12:25
To: UKHA_D Group
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] CBus / X10 Opinions please



David wrote:

>I would like peoples opinions please on the CBus X10 argument. I'm
>having a new home being built and it will be time to put in the wiring
>in the next few weeks and I am completely unable to decide on CBus or
>X10. I know on the surface everyone will yell CBus because of
>reliability but I have had a small X10 system in my current home and
>never had one problem with it. Obviously pricing is expensive on CBus
>but I want to make a wise informed decision for the future. I also use
>HomeSeer and MainLobby can I integrate CBus in to HomeSeer so that the
>graphical MainLobby program will control the CBus and also report
>status. I would rather not buy comfort or homevision to do integration
>as I already have an HA Controller.
>=20
>

Cat5 is cheap. Installing it retrospectively is expensive.

So, wire for cbus now, and decide later. Or use both.

(Oh and be sure to follow the UKHA sanctioned protocol for choosing how
much cat5 to put in)

Jim