RE: xAP & RIO/netgear router help/advice needed ;o)

["JT @ Home" <Jonathan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kevin,

Thankyou for taking the time to explain that to me, I understand it a
little more now . but I guess I'll learn more as I use it too(well, when
I get it working ;o))

The brain power behind this group is sometimes quite amazing !

Regards,
Jonathan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:lists@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 September 2004 13:10
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] xAP & RIO/netgear router help/advice needed ;o)

Frank Mc Alinden wrote:

>Hi Jonathon
>
>
>
>>Yeah, I am having a look at both . I assumed that both protocols
would
>>be compatible ?! is this not so ?
>>
>>
>
>No they are not compatible ...Although there is a plugin i believe
which
>allows you to create xAP messages within xPL but i dont think theres
any xPL
>enabling in xAP.....Kevin Hawkins might be able to assist as his main
app is
>xAP but he also uses some xPL stuff i believe.......
>
>
>
>>As my intentions were to use xplrio (for my rio !) and then use xap
to
>>monitor the unit (if poss) but my main reason for xap is to have
the
>>weather reports and eventually some of the other features .
>>
>>

Hi Jonathon,

Thought I'd post a bit of the reply here as it may help others.

xAP and xPL are different to the extent that they are not naturally
aware of each other. They can both be used on a network and happily
co-exist but they do not interoperate.  The data that is exchanged
between xAP devices is invisible to xPL and vica versa. However the
fundamentals of both protocols are the same,  xPL was a fork and change
to the xAP protocol.  Both protocols have their strengths but are
targeted in slightly different ways and which one you might choose to
adopt is a personal decision . I come from the xAP side and so most of
my systems are based on that but I have some xPL bits in there too.

However - and here's the really good news - you don't have to commit

yourself one way or another. Most people tend to ally themselves to one
or the other, particularly if they are writing their own code but as a
user you can mix and match xAP and xPL applications in your setup.  Each

will run quite happily and independantly. So in your case there are Rio
applications available for both xAP and xPL but Tony's current app is a
true masterpiece in the making so it's a natural choice.  You may then
wish to have the  graphic interface of say xAP Desktop and the xAP
Weather / TV listings applications running too.   As a controlling
application you can either use the scripting built in to xAP Desktop or
xPL Hal - both use the familiar VB script language. If you are not much
of a coder then  xPL HAL has 'determinators' too  which work like
wizards to help you tie the bits together. If you use HomeSeer then you
can install the free xAP plugin and all your xAP devices become visible
as HomeSeer devices - and actually all your HomeSeer devices become xAP
devices too :-)

As you progress you will want some form of interaction between your
xAP and xPL worlds - perhaps you would like the Rio to play "Here
comes
the rain"  as the forecast changes - silly suggestion but you get the
point. xPL HAL has a bidirectional scriptable bridge between xPL and
xAP.  What this means is that you can choose to watch for certain xAP
data say and copy this over to xPL. You might take the weather or TV
listings info from xAP and announce it on xPL as 'text to speech' on
your Rio or create a floating Rio window in xAP Desktop that is updated
from the xPL Rio application.  This could have transport controls and
display the current tracks info just like is currently available for the

SliMP3 or Squeezebox. I can post a screenshot if you've not seen this.

However you can't generically bridge all xAP and xPL traffic as they
operate in different ways, you instead choose to translate certain
information from one environment to the other and you have to create a
script that does this translation.

In my setup I  mix xAP and xPL - it allows you to choose a product that
is supported only in one environment but make the data available in the
other - this way it was hoped that there wouldnt have to be duplicated
effort of the xAP and xPL teams to each offer their own support for
every product - not quite what's happened but there you go. Most common
UKHA favourite devices have both xPL and xAP support.

I think it's fair to say that both xAP and xPL are for HA enthusiasts
still, suiting the majority of the users say on this list . They are not

yet however 'end user' offerings for all in the way that a property
developer might install an automation system for example eg
Crestron/Lutron/AMX/C-Bus even X10. However the x protocols are much
richer, open expanable & encompass almost all forms of data and control
eg video,audio,internet,pictures whereas those others are contained.
Great strides are being made with applications like xPL HAL, the
HomeSeer integration and xAP Desktop to broaden end user access to the x

protocols. But the x protocols are just what they say on the tin
(protocols) - and the manifestation as products  is something that is
happening over time. xAP/xPL is if you like a language not the person
who speaks it, an Esperanto if you like.

The x adopters and the teams have tended to support the hardware and
software  that they themselves own and use , creating for their own HA
setups with a degree of interoperability that was previously just not
possible before x . xAP/xPL are protocols that break down the obstacles
in getting device A to talk to device B in a standard and open way. Yes
you still need to understand a bit about scripting for the more complex
setups but x makes it about as simple as is possible.  It really is easy

with a small amount of programming skills to x enable your own 'Widget'
and add it to your HA system. It has opened up for me the attitude  that

'all is achievable' rather than 'when can I do this' or 'when will that
product ship'. Quite daunting  as the  'to do' list is now boundless !

I hope I've been fair to both xAP and xPL, ( I've tried ) - which one
you choose is a personal thing - both deliver. Its a bit like opting to
speak French or German,  people get exposed to or taught one and feel
more comfortable there. Both work and coexist, both can hear each other
but to actually understand each other needs a bit of translation.

Kevin

PS Jonathon - so yes you can achieve what you want :-) - the fact that
xAP weather is just displaying a cloud picture  with a ? mark in it
indicates it's not pulling the data off the internet correctly - I'll
tackle this on the xAP Automation Yahoo group for you.

>
>The best of both worlds ;-)) Why not ..........
>
>
>
Indeed.