RE: Re: C-BUS vs. EIB

["Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)" <haweste@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

David,

Many thanks for your comments. I'm working my way through the links you
posted and will get back to you when I've done a bit more research, however
some first impressions / comments:

- A very minor point, but www.eiba.org isn't the easiest site to navigate,
it did however, throw up a useful product link (add a serial port via
PCMCIA card)
- A quick google ("buy EIB module") didn't throw up any vendors
for EIB products (not that I could see anyway) only links to EIB Partners,
whereas "buy clipsal CBus" threw up quite a few option
- EIB & DIY - Siemens, in the UK at least, are *not* interested in the
DIY route for EIB and I've had that from the "horses mouth" as it
were :-(

Maybe DIY for EIB *is* a valid option, but one that requires more legwork
than the CBus route. Maybe it's not that much more legwork after all and I
just need to find the right route into it ?

I'm not knocking EIB, and as you point out there are work-arounds, but it
does seem harder to break into than CBus, for example. I think we'd all
benefit from a more open market and greater competition :-)

You seem to know quite a bit about EIB, may I ask how you acquired your
knowledge ?
:-)

Cheers,

Tim H.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Buckley  Sent: 12 March 2004 22:14
>
> --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Neil Ball" <neilball@b...>
wrote:
> > With regard to ABB I was pointing out that products using the
> > EIB protocol are available from a number of manufacturers
> > and that these may use additional proprietary
> > intructions/extensions on top of the basic protocol.
> > They still retain their EIB badging, but to fully utilise
> > the advanced features on a given product range requires
> > using a single-vendor system approach. This can also mean
> > that the software tools from that manufacturer have to be used
> > to commission these systems.
>
> The Siemens Instabus EIB compatible equipment, as well as all other
> manufacturers EIB compatible equipment is programmed using the ETS2
> software, available from EIBA.  Siemens themselves don't make
> programming software for their kit.  Thet do supply (downloadable)
> a "product database" which is how ETS2 "knows"
about EIB devices.
> All other EIB manufacturers also have product databases for their
> kit.
>
> Therefore, as long as you have a product database for _any_ EIB
> device(s), you can mix and match manufacturers EIB products.  So a
> single manufacturer approach has no benefit over a mix and match,
> apart from aesthetics.
>
> ETS2 is available from EIBA at 875 Euros (ouch!)  There is a demo
> version downloadable from www.eiba.org
>
> Well, actually, Siemens do programming software, they do a thing
> called "easy starter" which is free, but only programs a
small
> subset of their devices.  But the devices it does covers on/off and
> dimming, so is perfectly adequate for what many houses need.
> Annoyingly, you cant take EasyStarter designs and load them into
> ETS2.  Also annoyingly, if Siemens loaded just a few more modules
> into EasyStarter, then ETS2 would only be needed for really big
> projects.
>
> Anyway, have a play:
>
> http://www.ad.siemens.de/et/gamma/html_76/support/easy.htm
>
> Everything you nwanted to know about Instabus is on tha net, but not
> from the obvious place:  The Singapore Siemens site has the best
> coverage: http://instabus.siemens.com.sg/
>
> I also have to take issue about the DIY bit.
>
> If you have the ETS2 software, and an RS232 interface to an EIB
> system, you can do anything you like with it.  Thus it is as DIY as
> CBus.
>
> I've posted a price comparison previously based on CBus trade
> pricing versus Instabus trade pricing, and there are swings and
> roundabouts, but over the cost of a full system they come out fairly
> similar, but ETS2 software costs, whereas the CBus software
> is "free".
>
> As EIB is an "open" standard, integration is actually
easier, there
> are no NDAs to sign, and there is a Linux EIB interface!
>
> The equivalent to CGate for CBus is Falcon from EIBA, though this is
> also costware.

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