RE: C-BUS vs. EIB

["Neil Ball" <neilball@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Tim

I think you're confusing EIB with the Siemens product range. Unlike C-Bus
which is Clipsal's proprietary network protocol, EIB is an open standard
that while developed by Siemens is licensed to other companies e.g. you can
buy a complete EIB control system from ABB and others - this is
manufacturer
used by the chap on Grand Designs who was shown earlier in the series - The
Return to Cloud 8.

It may well be that the Siemens EIB implementation adds private extensions
to the public protocol thereby preventing full interoperability with other
systems and preventing 3rd party software tools from being used. This is
mostly the case with other open standards within the controls industry e.g.
Lonworks.

You are correct over the commissioning issues - Siemens only sell the
software tools and training to approved integrators which are still pretty
thin on the ground at the moment. Then again, in some areas this is no bad
thing. How many would be able to develop and write suitable HVAC control
strategies for heating & cooling plant and be able to include all of
the
necessary safety interlocks, multi-stage frost protection etc that these
more complex control systems offer. Most of these systems only offer
programmable I/O which requires someone to design, write and test the code,
which is why the manufacturers only use approved integrators most of the
time. Mind you in the case of Siemens I cannot comment on how much HVAC
knowledge their integrators actually have.

If you do not need to use analogue sensors or control equipment and only
need a digital control system (i.e. VFC in/ relay out) then take a look at
the Square-D system. It is much more basic, but the interactive training
course can be found from their web site. They seem to be trying to recruit
electrical contractors to do the install/commissioning so I'm sure they
will
also sell direct to suitably qualified end users as well.

Neil B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG) [mailto:haweste@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:45
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] C-BUS vs. EIB


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Kaye  Sent: 11 March 2004 11:26
>
> I'm just trying to throw the pros and cons of these two
> together and see
> what comes out of the mix.  Bearing in mind I'd like to combine these
> with Comfort and try to avoid X10 if possible, does anyone have any
> opinions on the two standards?  Any help or views would be much
> appreciated.

Mark,

One big difference between the two systems is that one *is* DIY-able and
one
isn't. At present in the UK, EIB can only be installed(1) by one of only
three "Partner" companies. This may change in the future, but
that's the
current situation.

Note 1: AIUI you can do all of the first fix work yourself (pulling cables)
etc, but one of the Partner Co's has to come and connect & commission
for
you.


With C-Bus, OTOH, you can pay about 400 quid or so, take a course and then
walk away with about 400 quid's worth of hardware to start you off.

>From a technical standpoint and without having personal experience of
either, I'd say that you could do pretty much anything you would want with
either system.

Tossing another supplier into the ring - have you looked at Polaron ?
http://www.polaron-group.co.uk/controls/
then click on "Polaron Building
Systems". This is also a very competent system, and one that can
integrate
with the QED whole house audio products, right down to using common
faceplates.

HTH,

Tim.



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