RE: EIB installation

[Martin Wonders <martin.wonders@xxxxxxx>]

Thanks, we will be wiring in the power with radial circuits, we've now just
got to decide between
Instabus or CBus.  We've been swinging toward Instabus because of the open
standard but I've discovered (as I think Mark mentioned)
that the software for this is around 1000 pounds and is a requirement for
programming, so this has caused a rethink.

So we're still undecided.

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: michael.furlong [mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 17 January 2004 14:57
To: ukha_d
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] EIB installation



Martin,

C-bus or x10 wiring is not non-standard as long as you put in the standard
switch cables to lighting switch positions (even though you won't use
them).
It is just using radial circuits which are allowed in the regs (in  fact
some would say they are safer/better with few points of failure).

One of the electrical suppliers does an over priced booklet called rings
and
things which explains this, from what I recall the key thing to watch for
is
cable lengths as you may need to up rate some cables.

I have installed C-bus but I am pretty certain I could return to bog
standard lighting with about 4 man-days work and that is for a 40 channel
system.

HTH
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Wonders [mailto:martin.wonders@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 January 2004 10:45
To: 'ukha_d@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] EIB installation


Hi Frank

>Arnt these the people that brought us from a control relay system....to
plc
>,s scada,s....
>etc.....

This is true, unfortunately she (and myself) have been in too many
situations where we have seen early adopters of new plant automation
products have serious problems. So I'm afraid it's because of the
Electrical
Engineer status that we tend to be a bit cautious.

>Would have thought an Electrical Engineer would be more forward
thinking
???

Unfortunately, forward thinking also means looking at the worst case
scenarios ;-)

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Mc Alinden [mailto:fmcalind@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 January 2004 10:31
To: ukha_d
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] EIB installation



Hi Martin
>Just say we wire the house with a bus system and it
>works perfectly for years and then we sell it,

In a few years time intelligent lighting will be the norm and there will
be
sufficient supply of  electrical contractors out there who will have the
skills to install / maintain these systems IMHO....
Would have thought an Electrical Engineer would be more forward thinking
???
Arnt these the people that brought us from a control relay system....to
plc
,s scada,s....
etc.....
Frank

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Wonders" <martin.wonders@unn.ac.uk>
To: <ukha_d@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] EIB installation


I'm afraid SWMBO will not be swayed on this (the house must be wired as
standard to revert back if required) and in a way she has a point,
Her argument being: Just say we wire the house with a bus system and it
works perfectly for years and then we sell it, somewhere down the line
something goes wrong, the buyers call out an electrician who takes one
look
at the system and either doesn't know where to start or charges a fortune
for non-standard work.

The other issue is building regulations, where do we stand here when we
come
to get the wiring signed off?

I've heard that Siemens are claiming that their EIB system (Instabus, I
think it's called) is the cheapest home automation system on the market.








-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McCall [mailto:lists@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 January 2004 09:53
To: ukha_d
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] EIB installation



> I've done a little bit of reading since last night and it seams that
EIB
> allows you to (power) wire the house as normal
> but with an extra bus cable running along with the power.

Why would you want to run power as well as a bus system?
Bus lighting is only going to get more popular.  Look at car electrics.

A quality professional lighting system (ie one that doesn't need
"tinkering") is one of the few Home Automation items which may
actually
prove to be a selling point in a house.

Last time I heard EIB was very hard to do as a DIY install.  It needed
about
#3.5K spent on training and software before you could do it(this may have
changed).

> We are also looking at CBus, but again I
> get the impression that the wiring is non standard.

CBus can use totally standard CAT5 cable.  It's bus can be Star or
Daisy-Chain or a combination.

There's nothing to stop you installing CBus AND putting mains cables in
the
walls too (seperately of course).

With the UKs support of CBus growing..and new products like the Alarm, the
RF Switches and the Multichannel CBus zoned amp all due shortly, CBus is
hard to go past.

M.




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