Re: Request Input on new Project

["mark_harrison_uk2" <mph@xxxxxxx>]

Gavin,

In addition to xPL you should consider xAP 1.2
(www.xapautomation.org).

xPL and xAP are both forks from xAP 1.1 which have both moved a long
way. Indeed the two founders of xPL worked on the Specification of
xAP 1.2 before leaving because they had a different vision.

There are a number of technical differences between them. In my view
(and others in both worlds will have different opinions), then key
difference is that of the central controller model.

xPL is bound up heavily with xPLHal as the centrepiece. xPLHal is 1:
Good, and 2: Free. I am not aware of any xPL implementations that
don't use it.

xAP envisages a far more distributed world where a central controller
is not inherently required by the architecture at run-time, since end-
point components can have control logic pushed to them at install-
time. In practice, most xAP (90%?) installations in the field have
ended up with a central controller, and no small number of them use
xPLHal (which has good xAP 1.2 support.)

Scalability is good: the largest xAP installation in the field has
about 120 "devices", a mix of "virtual devices" such as
connectors
for computer-based stuff, and hardware devices such as temperature
sensors, PIRs, relay controllers etc. I don't know what the biggest
xPL implementation installed is, but I would be very surprised if it
didn't scale up to the needs of 99.9% of homes. Some of the more
complex xAP installations are commercial not domestic.

Regards,

Mark



--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, Gavin Kistner <gavin@r...> wrote:
> SUMMARY
> I'm about 6 months away from beginning construction on my own
house,
> and I have extensive automation visions. I need lots of solid urls
and
> recommendations from you experienced folks for my research, and
would
> like your feedback on an open source project I'm contemplating
> beginning for this effort.
>
> Despite the length of this post, I'm *not* asking you to design or
> build my system for me. I'm looking for feedback.
>
>
>
> HEY THERE
> So, first, if cross-posting to all three of these lists is a bad
idea,
> please wonk me with a stick of Rightness and tell me which is the
> correct group to continue this discussion on.
>
> Second: Hey there! I'm excited to join the world of home automaters
as
> more than a spectator, though the circumstances daunt me. :)
>
> You may look at the below and say "Uhm, this seems like an insane
> amount of work, when solution _____ would work just as well. I
wonder
> why he's decided not to do that." The answer to those sorts of
> questions is probably "Because I'm an impatient idiot who hasn't
done
> his homework and research properly."
>
> Please feel free to yell at me and tell me a far easier way to
achieve
> my goals, though please read as much of the following as you can
before
> doing so, because if you propose solution _____ which actually only
> covers 80% of my goals, in my naivete I probably won't realize that
> it's not the right solution until far later, and then I'll be
cranky :)
>
>
>
> ROUGH GOALS FOR MY PARTICULAR HOUSE
> I'm a geek, but despite that my goal is to make the automation as
> transparent as possible. No ugly wall warts, almost no 'attractive'
> master control wallplates, no text-to-speech computers announcing
> trivial things. The interior should look like a non-automated
house,
> and work like a non-automated house, with the exception of how it
> reacts to its use, and the exception of a few wall-mounted control
> touchscreens.
>
> Here's roughly what I'm aiming for:
>
> * Every (almost) light switch in the house should be able to be
> computer controlled, with about 2/3 of them dimmable. (Rough count
is
> 23 dimmable light 'zones', and 10 non-dimmable.) This includes 4-6
> table/floor lamps.
>
> * 7 zones for music (speaker sets). Any zone should be able to
listen
> to any audio source, in an n-to-n matrix.
>
> * 6 audio sources.
>
> * 1 big TV, and the ability (hopefully) to route video signals to
the
> wall LCDs and/or any computer in the house.
>
> * 5-6 video sources (3-4 of which are security cameras)
>
> * 3 watering zones
>
> * Light, Temperature, and Humidity sensors in 5-6 locations, and a
full
> weather station outside also hooked in.
>
> * 7 radiant floor heating zones, controllable by the system.
>
> * A few motorized blinds.
>
> * All doors and operable windows with open/closed sensors.
>
> * All but one exterior door with computer controlled deadbolt,
> auto-opening using something like iButton.
>
> * An RF sensor for buttons activated from the car.
>
> * My own custom interface, designed by me.
>
> * The ability to set up complex triggers/macros *after*
installation,
> like: "If the average temperature in the livingroom is above ___
and
> the heating is on, turn it off. If the heat is already off, and the
> blinds are open, and the light level in the room is above ____,
close
> the blinds."
>
> * The ability to view graphs of historical sensor data ("show me
the
> average temperature in the room over the last day").
>
> * I want to buy quality, premade components and hook them up. I do
> *not* want to solder. (Not only have I never been very good at it,
but
> primarily I want a solution that my friends can use just by
spending
> money themselves.)
>
> * If I can find them, I was really hoping to use touchscreen,
wireless,
> LCD thin network clients to both control the house and also use
other
> 'intranet' applications, and browse the web. Something in the 14-
17"
> range.
>
>
>
> WHY CAN'T I USE EXISTING SOLUTIONS?
> I dunno, maybe I can. But so far, every system I've looked suffers
>from
> one or more of the following problems:
>
> * Covers a portion of the system, but not all of it. (Lighting and
AV,
> but not temperature or watering.)
>
> * Have expensive components which try and do too much work
themselves.
> (I already have a DVD player with 2 video outputs, a receiver with
6
> video inputs and 2 outputs, and a TV with 3 video inputs and 2 coax
> tuners. Every piece is trying to do the job of every other piece. I
> don't want a lightswitch that stores complex lighting schemes when
> that's what the computer will be doing.)
>
> * Are proprietary, usually in a silly way. I can't easily extend
the
> system myself later, and probably can't program it myself.
>
> * Have horrific 1980-looking touchpad interfaces, which are usually
> designed around the hardware's features rather than the user's
needs.
>
>
>
>
> THE SOFTWARE SOLUTION - WHAT I'M (gasp) PLANNING
> So, what I'm thinking really needs to happen is to abstract the
various
> levels from each other:
>
> Interface <-- abstraction layer --> Control Software <--
abstraction
> layer --> Hardware
>
> The project I'm planning (and dreading) is to write (open source)
the
> middle component in such a way that people can develop their own
> interface programs which communicate with it.
>
> More importantly, each type of hardware device (from different
> manufacturers and using different technologies) will have its own
> 'plugin'/DLL written for it, which abstracts the implementation
>from
> the control interface.
>
> For a far better visual representation, see:
> http://phrogz.net/tmp/HouseMouse_Block.png
>
> CoolTechnologyCompany will release a new bluetooth temperature
sensor.
> I (or you) will write the plugin for it that describes the
properties
> and methods it supports, and internally knows how to produce the
values
> and perform the methods. I drop the plugin into my own components
> directory, tell the Master Program to rescan components and
(without
> restarting the program and crashing the house) suddenly the admin
side
> of the Master Program knows how to control that device.
>
>
> Note that when I mention this project a lot of geeks
say "Zeroconf!",
> "Embedded Linux!", thinking that I'm suggesting that the
hardware
> device (the lightswitch) itself is supposed to expose its
> functionality. While this would be grand, this isn't the case with
99%
> of the existing hardware out there, and that's what I want to use.
I
> want a piece of software--the plugin--to provide the abstraction.
>
>
>
>
>
> HELP ME!
> Am I insane? Does this middle Master Program already exist? Can I
> accomplish all my goals above without this level of abstraction?
>
> If I had a solution like this readily available, would you want it?
> Does your answer depend on what language it was written in, or on
the
> hardware platform (Windows vs. MacOS vs. Linux vs. BSD) that it ran
on?
>
> If I wrote this in Java as an open-source project, would you be
willing
> and able to contribute?
>
> I know so little about the amazing array of hardware choices
available.
> (X10 switches; X10 in-wiring control; Lutron RadioRA; Clipsal
C_Bus;
> etc.). My software wouldn't care which system I ended up using, but
the
> electrician wiring the house needs to know. How can I figure out
what's
> good and what isn't, and (more importantly) what the full spectrum
of
> offerings is?
>
> In your experience, do professional automation 'experts' know what
> they're talking about, or do they only know the solution or two
that
> they are a reseller for? Should I hire such a consultant to work
out
> the system, or are they going to just say "You're dreaming; here,
just
> buy this."
>
> Am I dreaming? Is this project too ambitious to even think of
> attempting with ~1 year to go until the house should be close to
done?
>
> --
> (-, /\ \/ / /\/