RE: Introductory Message and questions

["Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Andy and welcome - I'll have a bash at a number of your questions.. my
take on the subject of course - others will have quite different and
equally
valid views as I found with the recent X10 thread ;-) That's what's great
about this pastime.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Day [mailto:home_automation@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 03 June 2003 23:37

>friends house and then mine. Notice I intend to use his house as the
>guinea pig so any issues can be ironed out at his place before I tackle
>mine.

Sounds like a great plan that !

>Having seen the Clipsal presentation at the meet and the recent
postings
>to this list C-Bus looks to be the way ahead on the lighting front,
>however a number of questions arise mostly because I am still unsure
how
>everything hangs together. I intend to take the Clipsal course but I
>don't know when I will be able to do this and how well they will cover
>topics such as integrating external controllers.

I would strongly recommend the course but as it's kind of expensive you
need
to be convinced that C-Bus is going to be right for you in the first place.
The kit that you receive more than offsets the course costs. Clipsal will
not teach you anything about external interfacing - and probably won't be
able to even suggest directions to go on this. (except of cpurse they do
have their own C-Gate product).

>
>In an X10 environment I can see how an external controller such as
>HomeVision can enhance the features and functionality of lights and
>appliances. But where and why does something like Comfort come into it?
>Is Comfort used additionally to HV or in place of HV? and what other
>than security does Comfort bring to the party?

I use both Comfort and HV (and C-Bus) -( and actually HomeSeer, ACE and xAP
as well) but then I like to play. I have a professional alarm installed too
(Galaxy). I hold a strong view that 'security' should be as standalone and
separate to the HA needs as possible. However some communality of operation
is desirable - eg your HA system benefits from knowing what state the alarm
system is in (night day set etc) and also potentially which zones and PIR's
are open or see activity. I am not of a mind to control my alarm system
from
HA activity though, that is setting and particularly unsetting or bypassing
zones in the system, I view this as a potential security risk. However I
agree that automated night set operation may be attractive to many.
Comfort is a very capable system (if a little awkward and restricted
programmatically). It is one of very few systems that sits in the middle
ground as a professional, fully capable alarm system with good HA features.
It supports scripted actions based on it's own sensors and operation
allowing it to control and monitor its various inputs and outputs. It
supports, ON/OFF outputs and inputs , some analogue inputs, along with
voice
and doorstation (intercom) features and a fairly well featured inbuilt
telephone answerphone (mailbox) operation. Remote operation of the alarm
can
be accomplished and timed activities can be scheduled. Infra red (basic)
functionality is supported too along with X10 operation. Using additional
modules support can be added for C-Bus, serial interfaces and Honeywell
Smartfit heating control among others. Quite a capable device and it could
form the whole basis of a HA controller. To me though the programming is
awkward (and space restricted) and I have chosen alternative solutions.
HomeVision is my workhorse - it does all my critical and repetitive
tasks. It operates without an attached PC and is totally resilient in
operation - it just works. More fancy control I achieve with Homeseer,  ACE
- and xAP. I use Comfort for nightmode (occupied) and the Galaxy as my main
alarm system. This is as much due to circumstances as anything else. The
Galaxy was installed before I bought the property and it is an insurance
requirement I have certain features that Comfort doesn't provide.

>
>Now just to confuse me more, what is the best option in a C-Bus
>environment, do I need an external controller,

Depends on how you will use the C-Bus installation. It will perate
independently  without anything external. However the control might not
meet
your needs (if you are a HA enthusiast) and it may be particularly
restrictive in areas like timed scheduling etc.

>Clipsal C-Gate Server
>seems to add additional control functionality plus an interface to 3rd
>party control software. What software has the ability to interact with
>C-Gate (I have heard of Homeseer and Autom8it, could these or others
>work) or is C-Gate all I need?

C-Gate provides a tcp/ip socket level interface to C-Bus control - it is  a
Java application that requires a dedicated C-Bus RS232 or Ethernet
interface. If you are able to code socket level interfaces then this will
provide everything you need. You will need the PC running 24/7. The
software
is relatively inexpensive and Clipsal's C-Lution software (hugely
expensive)and their HomeGate software (mid price) both utilise C-Gate. My
xAP gateway currently supports C-Gate too although I may retire this in the
released product. No other software that I am aware of(you mention Autom8it
or HomeSeer) supports C-Bus directly or via C-Gate. Symphony (software) has
indicated it may do and HomeBrain (a hardware controller) has stated
intention to do so via direct serial connectivity.
I am releasing a C-Bus to xAP gateway that will effectively open up the
proprietory nature of C-Bus to external control and monitoring. More info
on
xAP at www.xapautomation.org.


> In time I would like to use ToD plus PIRs
>and light level sensors to turn lights on automatically at night
>someone, especially the kids, goes to the bathroom at night. Plus I
>would hope, in time, lots of similar automatic controls.

This is something Comfort actually does very well in that because the
sensors and outputs are local to one device the response time is very good.
It can be done with almost all the options above too though with varying
levels of effectiveness.

>Alternatively
>Clipsal do SceneMaster controller for scene lighting, although I don't
>know if this can be worked with external inputs for this type of
>control.

You would need to either install an input unit on C-Bus (they are available
>from
accomplish this. Scenemaster is a very focussed device - ideal for a
typical
end user but maybe restrictive for a HA enthusiast.

>Comfort has a CBus integration Board. What does this do for me?

It allows Comfort to switch C-Bus loads ON and OFF or set them to a level -
or to respond to a C-Bus event and do something else via a Comfort script.

>And as an additional point of confusion the new HomeBrain system should
>have Cbus compatibility built in. This seems to offer a great deal more
>than the Clipsal controllers but I could be wrong. Also would HomeBrain
>work with or instead of Comfort in this type of scenario and what about
>external input devices, PIRs, temp sensors, light level sensors, would
>they need to be CBus or could Comfort and HomeBrain use other input
>devices to switch/dim CBus devices?

HomeBrain looks like a great solution for HA control and will facilitate
almost all you need here. You could connect security sensors to HomeBrain
also. However, as I said earlier I have a strong view that alarm systems
should be as independent as possible from your HA setup - at least in the
security sense. What I mean is that I rely on my security system to work
faultlessly and be well.. secure. Whilst you could implement effectively an
alarm system on HomeBrain it would lack some of the fundamental security
requirements and operational integrity.  It would not satisfy any insurers
either - my view - adjunct something like HomeBrain with a proper alarm
system. Many of these have serial interfaces on them that you can monitor
to
achieve the required activities. I use an Ademco Microtech Galaxy system
maintained by an external alarm company. I do not even have engineer access
to it, but I can get all the info / control that I need from it via the
serial interface.

I also see a mention of Crestron
>within some Clipsal info, how does this integrate and what
functionality
>would I get from Crestron?

Not even going to start on this one - but it is a viable option - very much
at the higher end of the market but super stuff.

>
>Now before my head explodes here is something a whole lot simpler, for
>me at least. The Neo switches look really smart and incorporate an IR
>receiver. Can this be used to distribute IR to Clipsals IR transmitters
>for control of AV eqpt in another room or is it restricted to contol of
>the lighting with the optional Clipsal remote or Pronto etc?

Clipsal's IR is not as flexible as you will probably need. The Neo's for
example have an IR receiver that works in tandem with an 8 key remote hat
effectively maps each IR button to one of the keys. Clispal have an IR
system that basically allows you to learn and store IR commands within a
C-Bus context - you can then recognise these commands and trigger a C-Bus
action based upon them . You can also retransmit the IR - but it is not a
generic IR distribution system at all.
>
>Onto the AV part and I am not 100% sure exactly what to do here so I
>will listen to any other ideas on what to do and how to do it. The
>basics would be to :

I'm gonna pass on all the remaining questions and hope someone else steps
in
- take a look at http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
too - this site has loads of
info on this subject and provides a load of links to other useful sites. I
am not aware of any really useful books at the moment and as this field is
moving so fast it's a hard task for any such title to be up to date. I
think
the various web sites are you best bet.

Good luck...

Kevin