FW: Re: Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes (Ocelot?)

["Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxx>]

Long debate on this one Helen as you will have seen.



No I wouldn't call X10 amateurish, but I wouldn't call it professional
either. It's an 'end user residential' product aimed at providing
HomeAutomation control at a great price point with good features, a large
established base, fantastically easy to retrofit and with good software and
hardware controllers available, By any comparison that's an amazing
achievement - it has served me well for many years but I have now moved
house and have taken the time to revisit my expectations. I would say that
my requirements and expectations have moved on a little and as this
property
has some problematic retrofit issues I have taken the opportunity to choose
my solution. I use X10 still, partly due to retrofit cabling issues in some
areas with C-Bus, which is my chosen lighting system, and partly as C-Bus
can't accomplish some of the things that X10 can. Plus my HA controllers
(HomeVision / HomeSeer /ACE) work transparently with X10. I would actually
recommend X10 to all new HA'ers - the modules will always remain useful and
you learn so much about what you can expect to achieve with HA in a rapid
and non disruptive way. Buy a few and play.

I am not involved commercially at all with C-Bus, it was just my
choice . It occupies the middle ground (pricewise) above X10 and below say
Lutron, it provides the features I want - with the accessibility I need
(via
xAP). The issues that I have had with X10 are resolved by C-Bus .

C-Bus comes at a price that although I wish it was lower is acceptable. The
dimmer modules compare quite favourably against X10 DIN modules, in reality
the extra cost of C-Bus comes mainly from the increased cost of light
switches and the need for a computer RS232 interface, pllus you need to
cable of course.

I can't really offer anything except my personal opinion on
C-Bus (& X10) but there are others on this list who use Polaron, Lutron
etc
who can offer their own take on this. You need to take a look at these
systems in operation and the cosmetics of the various switches etc along
with the price of the final installtion. You also need to decide just what
your needs and expectations are from the system you choose - which I know
is
an almost impossible task when you're just starting in this field - but
therein lies the fun.



Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: hholohan2000 [mailto:helen@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 31 May 2003 18:24
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: [ukha_d] Re: Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes
(Ocelot?)



Hi Kevin

thank you very much for your comprehensive answer. It's very
informative.

In a nutshell, it seems to me that X10 is a kind-of amateurish,
clunky solution. I was enthusiastic initially but the more research I
do, the more caveats and limitations I find.

I'll look into Clipsal's C-Bus and Polaron. Do you have any other
recommendations at all for a mid-range system to do what I want, even
if a small amount of re-wiring is involved? I don't want to spend the
type of money that would be necessary to have say a Lutron system but
I would like something reliable that works fairly professionally and
looks decent. I can't seem to find anything between cheap-and-
cheerful and high-end expensive luxury.


Thanks again
Helen


--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Kevin Hawkins" <lists@u...> wrote:
> Hi Helen -welcome to the list !
>
>
>
>             There are two big issues with X10 - one is the actual
technology
> which is rather long in the tooth now. Whilst it is easy to
retrofit because
> it uses your existing mains wiring it is fairly slow and prone to
being
> unreliable. The second issue is the range of products available in
the UK -
> they are not cosmetically attractive and offer limited
functionality at a
> much higher price than the US (bargain eh !). We have very few two
way
> modules (which allow the status of a device to be read) nor two way
light
> switches for example. The issues you raise below are real issues
that I had
> expected to be resolved years ago by any sensible company wanting
to drive a
> growth market for X10.  Most people who are concerned over the
cosmetics
> have gone for the partial rewiring needed to support X10 DIN rail
modules
> (the ones that mount in your consumer unit) - and these are
functionally a
> lot more capable. There are a few alternative 'higher end' systems
around
> like Clipsal's C-Bus and Polaron but they require a small connector
cable to
> be run between all the switches etc.
>
>             Ian on this list is working on an alternative to X10
that again
> uses the mains wiring for communication but is much faster and
reliable in
> that it supports two way communications (status). However it's a
few months
> off being available yet and may still require some partial rewiring
in your
> scenario.
>
>             Re the scene issues - although X10 is relatively slow
it is not
> unworkable for scenes although the sequential switching is quite
evident -
> some dim sequences can take a few seconds to action  - you can
incorporate
> several modules all set to the same housecode and unit code which
means that
> they will respond together to get around this - in addition some
modules
> support a preset dim command which allows them to be set directly
to a level
> with one command (rather than a sequence of dim/bright commands).
If you do
> use basic devices then there is no way around having to set each
level in
> turn and an Ocelot, HomeVision or whatever will produce the same
result.
> They are both intelligent to the extent that if a device is already
on at
> say 50% and you have to move it to 60% they send the 10% difference
changes
> rather than switching the lamp to full brightness and then dimming
40%.
>
>             Lastly - just a comment - if you do go the route of
some 'micro
> modules' that sit behind sockets then you must ensure that they are
wired in
> a way that complies with regulations and can switch whatever rated
load
> COULD be plugged into the socket. Really if you switch a 13A socket
then you
> should be able to handle 13A+ although fusing at lower currents is
a way
> around this. If you use dimmer modules then change the sockets to
be the
> smaller 3A/5A style commonly used for table lamps - this way no one
can plug
> the vacuum cleaner into your dimmer. You are right to be concerned
with
> accessibility for fuses which blow quite regularly in all the
generally
> available X10 lamp modules - when the bulb goes most times the fuse
does too
> (true of the wall switches too) - this does not ingratiate you with
others
> in the house.
>
>
>
>             Kevin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hholohan2000 [mailto:helen@xxxxxxx...]
> Sent: 31 May 2003 10:57
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: [ukha_d] Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes
(Ocelot?)
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Please excuse me for asking what must be a very basic question.
>
> I want to be able to dim/brighten and switch on/off most of the
> lights in my 6 year old home using an X10 system. I've being doing
> lots of research but still can't figure out something which must be
> very simple:
>
> 1) Main room lights
> Some rooms have low-voltage recessed lights in the ceiling and some
> others have basic pendant lights. I want to be able to control all
of
> these without installing ugly X10 dimmer switches. Isn't there a
> dimmable micromodule receiver that I can hide behind existing
> switches?
>
> 2) Plug-in table/standard lamps
> I already have a couple of plug-in lamp modules and these work fine
> to dim/brighten the lights. I've also read about the socket rocket
to
> which the bulb can be plugged in directly. However, isn't there
> something I can put in the wall socket itself to control these
> lights? The lamp modules are fairly big and ugly.
>
> I've read also about intelligent controllers, like the Ocelot,
which
> sound great but if I still have to use clunky lamp modules and have
> no way of controlling the ceiling lights other than by installing
X10
> dimmer switches everywhere then what's the point? I've seen
receivers
> (LM12W) which can be installed at the ceiling rose but they have
> fuses in them which would subsequently be very difficult to get at.
> So, if I get an Ocelot, isn't there a nice neat fairly unintrusive
> way of controlling all my lights from it?
>
> At the end of the day, my goal is to have scene control. Even if I
> get the Ocelot, will I be able to control multiple lights in a
scene
> simultaneously or will there be a delay while each light command is
> sent out sequentially?
>
> Many thanks
> Helen (in Ireland)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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