RE: Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes (Ocelot?)

["Mick Furlong" <hiltoneltd@xxxxxxx>]

Whoa...substitute windows for x10 and linux for clipsal...noooooo not HA
flame wars ;)

Anyway my 2 cents worth .......

Clipsal or similar = great if you can afford it and if you can either make
your wiring compliant with it or are in a new build situation.

X10 = great if you want a cheap(er) entry into HA and you can't or don't
want to rewire.

Basically like a lot of things it is horses for courses and there are a
1000
shadesof grey in between the two positions

Now to the interesting bits ;)

'New' X10 modules at a higher price = as per X10 but you need to check that
the prices aren't pushing you to a Clipsal or similar system. Excluding the
rewiring costs (which are needed for a lot of the nicer functionality even
with X10) and depending on exactly what you want to do the two systems you
may find them approaching each other in cost...but really each case will be
unique.

New PLC modules = well I don't know enough about these to say and as they
aren't currently available it is a moot point anyway.

btw Helen we don't always argue so much!

Mick

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan [mailto:dtoma@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 31 May 2003 21:21
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes
(Ocelot?)


Hi,

> With the expiration of X-10 patents, the X-10 system
> protocol is effectively an open home automation system with published
> detailed technical information on the X-10 protocol.

When it will expire?

Thanks,
Dan


----- Original Message -----
From: "K. C. Li" <li@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Newbie - controlling lights and creating scenes
(Ocelot?)


> On Sat, 31 May 2003, Ian Davidson wrote:
>
> > current, however X10 is. Yes I agree it can be made better,
improved
> > sensitivity, and a little improvement to options but it is so
limited.
>
> Apart from the transmission speed, what exactly are the limiting
factors?
> The X-10 command set? The X-10 products themselves? Others?
>
> > Speed is a big issue with a lot of users and this simply can not
be
> > improved upon, in fact as extended codes are used it actually
gets
> > slower.
>
> I agree the speed of signal transmission cannot be improved by much
> without disobeying the X-10 protocol timing. However, apart from some
> situations when faster response time is required (eg. auto switching
of
> lights based on occupancy), the slow speed of X-10 signal transmission
> shouldn't matter that much. For everyday automatic light and appliance
> scheduling, the delay of a few seconds is hardly critical.
>
> > X10 is so well established with millions of units out there, and
> > supported by every HA system I know, but that should not allow us
to
> > continue to use and develop it when it can not deliver much of
what we
>
> Why not? Apart from the speed limitation, almost everything else can
be
> made to be better. And better modules are coming to the market from
3rd
> party suppliers. With the expiration of X-10 patents, the X-10 system
> protocol is effectively an open home automation system with published
> detailed technical information on the X-10 protocol.
>
> > need today. Look at the interest of the group over the last few
weeks
of
> > C-BUS, I believe that is because people can not achieve what they
need
> > with even the latest breeds of X10. Imagine a cross between C-BUS
and
>
> The group has also been very interested in a number of other things in
the
> past. It doesn't necessarily mean much as a reliable indicator for the
> future. In my opinion, the negative image of X-10 is sometimes more to
do
> with the bland styling of its products than the functionality of them.
>
> > X10, the flexibility, style and reliability of C-BUS with the no
special
> > wiring needs and affordability of X10.
>
> I agree.
>
> > Yes I am biased, but only in the sense of the fact that I could
not
get
> > what I needed from X10 and other options were to expensive. That
is
the
> > sole reason I embarked on designing a replacement. I still do not
know
> > if it will be marketed, I needed the product and decided to give
it a
>
> I am not questioning the reasoning behind your decision to design your
own
> system. If you have the technical ability and desire to do so, then
why
> not? However, any resultant products will be judged not purely by its
> technical capability but other factors such as reliability, cost,
> appearance, availability and range.
>
> > go. It proves the point that PLT can work more reliably than
people
> > experience with the older X10. I do think it is important not to
group
> > X10 and other PLT.
>
> But X-10 is a form of Power Line Technology, may be even the first,
and
> X-10 can work reliably with improved modules.
>
> > X10 does suit some people, but I do believe now is the time to
start
and
> > improve things.
>
> As we have also found ourselves, it is not that difficult to improve
on
> the X-10 products but the cost per unit might go up proportionally.
One
> advantage of X-10 (if you can call it that) is that the latest
products
> are still backward compatible with X-10 products of, say, 10 years
ago.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kwong Li
> li@xxxxxxx
> Laser Business Systems Ltd.
> http://www.laser.com
>
>
>
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