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RE: RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"


  • To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
  • Subject: RE: RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
  • From: "Ian Lowe" <ian@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 23:49:51 -0000
  • Mailing-list: list ukha_d@xxxxxxx; contact ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
  • Reply-to: ukha_d@xxxxxxx

Phil,
To actually answer your question rather than having a moan.. :)

Trading Standards today seemed pretty clear that Terms and Conditions as
indicated to the customer before point of sale could introduce reasonable
exemptions to the distance selling regulations, to cover such things as a
re-stocking fee, requiring unopened original boxes (some confusion on that
one in the TS offices) and so on..

I am NOT a lawyer, so you should seek opinion from your local TS, and
someone qualified to interpret the regulatiosns properly, however, I was
told point blank that if the Ts and Cs published on the website stated that
a condition of return under the distance selling regulations was paying a
re-stocking fee, then that was that.

So, to answer your question, you state in your Ts and Cs that return
shipping costs must be met by the customer (forward shipping is viewed as
part of the sale, but you can insist that the customer pays for the return
shipping) and re-sell the kit as "B" stock, checked working and pristine,
but previously sold,  with 10% off, and you charge a 15% restocking fee.

The result is you lose nothing, your customers are happy, and people on
lists like this spread the good news, rather than getting a grudge for life.

I know dabs will incur costs through this, and would have been *perfectly*
happy to pay a restocking fee. They, however, have chosen the "fu" school of
diplomacy.

I.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 03 January 2003 20:46
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"


OK Ian,

I understand *YOUR* frustration but tell me - what is a retailer
supposed to do with kit that is ordered and shipped then returned?

We can't sell it again because as it's been opened it's no longer
classed as new.

We can't send it back to the manufacturers as it's not faulty.

We *CAN* use it as a warranty replacement item but that relies on us
hanging on to whatever kit it is in the hope that we get a faulty one
sometime. This doesn't apply to things like Prontos as Philips repair
any faulty units that we send back to them so we don't get "new" units
back from them then.

Everyone wants cheaper and cheaper prices and everyone assumes that the
internet obliges online retailers to run companies almost as a charity
but legislation and credit card companies leave online retailers
extremely exposed. To give you an example, if we get *ONE* Pronto
returned as "I tried it and I don't like it" then that one transaction
not only leaves us with a Pronto we can't do anything with but apart
>from costs wipes out the profit from at least three more!

Phil



On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 15:29, Ian Lowe wrote:
> Well,
> Trading Standards have got back to me, and things are looking good.
>
> They reckon that the legislation does not provide the ability for a
retailer
> to refuse a resolution under the distance selling regs simply because the
> goods have been opened. It's (of course) reasonable to refuse if the goods
> have not been kept in good condition, or the original packaging has been
> thrown away, but for now, the Trading Standards people reckon dabs are in
> the wrong.
>
> One of the get-outs, it seems, was the Ts and Cs on the website, and TS
are
> now  off to check the dabs website, which helpfully says:
>
> "The terms and conditions listed below are for business customers. We do
not
> have consumer terms and conditions, as these are determined by specific
> legislation, the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Sale and Supply of Goods Act
> 1994, and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977."
>
> So, the printer Ts and Cs don't provide them with any get-out.
>
> I'm waiting for TS to get back to me, before calling Visa. I seem to
recall
> that my visa card gives me some sort of protection when used online too.
:D
>
> I.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Des Gibbons [mailto:des@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 03 January 2003 14:53
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
>
>
> Reading that paragraph, they can only stipulate who pays the carriage if
> they inform you in writing no later than with the delivery of the goods.
> T&C's on a website are not on a durable medium.
>
> Did they?
>
> Cheers, Des.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Smith, Allan G [mailto:yahoo@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 14:45
> > To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> >
> > I thought (and I could be wrong here) but following my dealings with a
> > company called Global Positioning Systems (bunch of lying b*****s
selling
> > GPS systems who I would never touch with a barge pole again - glad to
get
> > that off my chest),that if stated in the Terms and Conditions of the
site
> > you were ordering from that you were liable for P&P for distance selling
> > returns then they could do this.
> > This is covered by 8.2.b.ii in the referenced doc...
> > "(ii) information as to whether the consumer or the supplier would be
> > responsible under these Regulations for the cost of returning any goods
to
> > the supplier, or the cost of his recovering them, if the consumer
cancels
> > the contract under regulation 10 "
> > Would be interesting if this isn't correct as I can feel another e-mail
> > coming to the company above...
> > Cheers
> > Allan
> >
> >    Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:21:11 -0000
> >    From: "Ian Lowe" <ian@xxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> > <snip>
> > For full details of the directive please see
> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm "
> > <snip>
> >
> > I note that in contrast to your statement on www.dabs.com, I am under no
> > obligation whatsoever to pay for return carriage:
> >
> > "The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods
> > except at his
> > own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in
> > another durable
> > medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the
> > supplier and given
> > to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are
> > collected
> > from those premises."
> >
> > I Lowe.
> >
> > http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
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> >
> >
>
>
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