RE: RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"

["Mark Harrison" <Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx>]

Phil,

Retailers who sell good kit, at sensible prices, and follow through
with
great service are making a mint. The law is there to protect the honest
:-)


I don't think that Ian's being unreasonable here. After all, when I buy
>from
they will go above and beyond the legal requirements to make me a happy
customer. Likewise Laser.

We both work for succesful etailers. Both of OUR employers respect the
law.

I think it's reasonable for us to expect our competitors to do the same
:-)

M.


-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: 3 January 2003 20:46
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"


OK Ian,

I understand *YOUR* frustration but tell me - what is a retailer
supposed to do with kit that is ordered and shipped then returned?

We can't sell it again because as it's been opened it's no longer
classed as new.

We can't send it back to the manufacturers as it's not faulty.

We *CAN* use it as a warranty replacement item but that relies on us
hanging on to whatever kit it is in the hope that we get a faulty one
sometime. This doesn't apply to things like Prontos as Philips repair
any faulty units that we send back to them so we don't get "new"
units
back from them then.

Everyone wants cheaper and cheaper prices and everyone assumes that the
internet obliges online retailers to run companies almost as a charity
but legislation and credit card companies leave online retailers
extremely exposed. To give you an example, if we get *ONE* Pronto
returned as "I tried it and I don't like it" then that one
transaction
not only leaves us with a Pronto we can't do anything with but apart
>from
costs wipes out the profit from at least three more! 

Phil



On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 15:29, Ian Lowe wrote:
> Well,
> Trading Standards have got back to me, and things are looking
good.
> 
> They reckon that the legislation does not provide the ability for a
> retailer to refuse a resolution under the distance selling regs
simply

> because the goods have been opened. It's (of course) reasonable to
> refuse if the goods have not been kept in good condition, or the 
> original packaging has been thrown away, but for now, the Trading 
> Standards people reckon dabs are in the wrong.
> 
> One of the get-outs, it seems, was the Ts and Cs on the website, and
> TS are now  off to check the dabs website, which helpfully
says:
> 
> "The terms and conditions listed below are for business
customers. We 
> do not have consumer terms and conditions, as these are determined by
> specific legislation, the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Sale and Supply
> of Goods Act 1994, and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977."
> 
> So, the printer Ts and Cs don't provide them with any get-out.
> 
> I'm waiting for TS to get back to me, before calling Visa. I seem to
> recall that my visa card gives me some sort of protection when used
> online too. :D
> 
> I.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Des Gibbons [mailto:des@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 03 January 2003 14:53
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> 
> 
> Reading that paragraph, they can only stipulate who pays the carriage
> if they inform you in writing no later than with the delivery of the
> goods. T&C's on a website are not on a durable medium.
> 
> Did they?
> 
> Cheers, Des.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Smith, Allan G [mailto:yahoo@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 14:45
> > To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> >
> > I thought (and I could be wrong here) but following my dealings
with

> > a company called Global Positioning Systems (bunch of lying
b*****s 
> > selling GPS systems who I would never touch with a barge pole
again 
> > - glad to get that off my chest),that if stated in the Terms and
> > Conditions of the site you were ordering from that you were
liable 
> > for P&P for distance selling returns then they could do this.
This 
> > is covered by 8.2.b.ii in the referenced doc...
> > "(ii) information as to whether the consumer or the supplier
would 
> > be responsible under these Regulations for the cost of returning
any

> > goods to the supplier, or the cost of his recovering them, if the
> > consumer cancels the contract under regulation 10 " Would be
> > interesting if this isn't correct as I can feel another e-mail
> > coming to the company above... Cheers
> > Allan
> >
> >    Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:21:11 -0000
> >    From: "Ian Lowe"
<ian@xxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> > <snip>
> > For full details of the directive please see 
> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
" <snip>
> >
> > I note that in contrast to your statement on www.dabs.com, I am
> > under no obligation whatsoever to pay for return carriage:
> >
> > "The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the
goods 
> > except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in
writing,

> > or in another durable
> > medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the
> > supplier and given
> > to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods
are
> > collected
> > from those premises."
> >
> > I Lowe.
> >
> > http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
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