Re: Jail for seller of illegal Xbox chips

["Ian Lowe" <ian@xxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hetherington" <mark.egroups@xxxxxxx>
> Their business model is well proven by the likes of mobile phones and
> set top boxes plus the obvious history of console hardware.

Previous use does not mean it's good. Elf Oil had a well practiced and
developed business model, where they bribed the key decision makers with
nice big bags of cash, in order to swing decisions. highly effective, but
also unsustainable.

> The concept of intellectual property <snip>

Is old, yes. very few right minded people would deny the right of an
enterprise (private or comercial) to get a return on their investment. How
many of those people would support the right of a company to attempt to
patent ridiculously simple things, (like, for instance, Amazon's one click
system) in an attempt to block any and all competition? IP is a fine
concept, but the way it is being developed now is a bad thing.

> Maybe you would also desire the right to take it apart, copy the
parts,
> build your own version then set up in competition based on their
> product?

Yep, that would be nice.

It was once the way of manufacturing industry. My hometown was a
mining/steel town, where a large amount of UK drilling and mining face
equipment was made: my grandfather worked in the toolshops, and routinely
came in with stories of a german (or even russian in one case) company
buying machines through proxies, reverse engineering them, and building
their own versions, usually with improvements. Rather than screaming
"lawyer", the UK company did the same back, then trumpeted that
their
machines were the *best* not the *only*

>while comparing with comparable products that, at least here on the
list,
do not appear to attract the
> same desire to break the protections of.

I am not aware of any comparable products.

> I really do not think that many (if any) members would pay the
> unsubsidised price.

Some of the members of this list have audio systems costing well into the
high thousands, projectors with a price tag like a family car, and HA
systems which cost a goodly size of the property value. many people base
their purchasing decision on features and quality, not simply cost. At the
moment, the xbox wins out on features.

> I forget the actual figures, but a PC from PC World
> would likely be a cheaper option. All said and done, the XBox is a PC
> with standardised components allowing the flaws of the PC to be
> minimised and certain optimisations made for it's intended purpose.

Just like a Tivo is *just* a PC with some specialised capture components?
thats the difference right there.

Mark, Do you own a tivo?

> Without investigation I cannot say that such a product does or does
not
> exist other than the PC

well after a *lot* of investigation, Xbox looks like the mutt's nuts as a
media platform. I play PC games for entertainment, and don't like console
games. shame.

> There is no sustainable income from such devices at present and it
would
> be more foolish for a commercial enterprise to invest in a product
that
> did not offer returns.

"no sustainable income", from a device that doesn't exist?

Sorry Mark, your reply is very eloquent, but this assertion is about as
profound as "there are no Americans anywhere in Baghdad". if you
can predict
the future returns on an as yet unavailable product, I'm sure there would
be
a great future for you in the stock market. (except, you should know that
already! ;) )

> The failure of DivX in it's original form has made all industries
cautious

Huh? what failure of DivX? there is (at this time) only one divx capable
dvd
player that I have seen, the Kiss unit.

> > both my MP and MSP seem open to being convinced on a range of
> > issues, and make my voice heard.
>
> Are you sure that is the case? Maybe they merely had the same views as
> yourself anyway and those that oppose those views are ignored.

What an incredibly depressing view! I'll admit, engaging in politics can be
a jading experience, but that's a near-suicidal level of cynicism.

> You appear to suggest that MEPs will be driven by the content
industries
> but MPs would be immune from the same and are merely "fighting
your
> corner".

Not at all. I have spoken to my MP, as I live in the same town, and can
drop
into the office. Similarly, I have spoken to my MSP a couple of times. my
MEP spends much more time at the parliament, and I have only been able to
speak to his staff, not him.

Whilst it's entirely possible that they are just good "people
people", I got
the impression that my MSP was just a decent person trying to make a
difference. My MP is a bit long in the tooth, but still, if you start
talking about the right subject, they spring into life about their desires
for improvement. I expect my MEP to be the same, although, I can't speak
>from

> You appear to be blaming the manufacturers from preventing you from
> turning their current hardware into something it is not, but also
> slating them for not making what you think they should make.

Wrong again. I am blaming them for locking down the marketplace with
patents
and copyright so that if their product doesn't do it right, *nobody* can
build a better mousetrap without being hauled off to the courts for
"infringement".

> Meanwhile, you suggest people petition their MPs to fix it when surely
by
your own
> reasoning it is manufacturers that need petitioning.

The Content Industry are busily trying to make the legal environment much
more friendly to their own brand of business. MPs make law. Makes perfect
sense to me.

> Democracy is a facade restricted to elections.

Because of people, like you, spreading the "there's no point"
message like a
disease. When was the last time you spoke to your elected member? ever?

> If you assume commerce has more effect on MEPs than individuals,

You made that assumption, not me. I have no preconceptions about MEPs / MPs
/ MSPs.

Ian.