Re: IRM +FirM Interfacing Update

["Dan" <dtoma@xxxxxxx>]

> Sorry Dan,
> I obviously don't understand properly how this all IR stuff works.
> What's the "carrier". I suppose that's some high frequency
IR signal
>modulates.

In order to be able to filter the signal at the receiver, this is
modulated
with a carrier, usualy between 30 and 40KHz.
In that way, you have two main advantages:
    - can put a filter to increase the S/N ration
    - as the fill factor is less than 1/2, usually 1/3 or
less, the LED can
drive a very big current for a short period of time and the range can
be
increase

>  I see that there are two types of IR signals, one with, and one
without
> "carrier".
> I suppose that remotes use carrier.

Mainly ...yes.... it is an old IR protocol used by ITT, with very small
pulses and without a carrier, but the single advantage of that protocol
was
that it require a very small current to operate, increasing
dramatically
remote battery life. As as cons, the range was not so good and the
bouncing
on walls is not as good as on carrier based protocols. So remotes can
use
both....
.. and more

> Here you say that FirM transmitts signal without carrier.
No... What I want to say is that IRM send the command to the FirM
infrared
output interface without a carrier, because Firm himself modulates the
signal with the 38KHz carrier and drive the infrared LED.
IRM can generate the carrier too, if is used with a TxD based interface
(you
have an option in the interface)... then the carrier is software
generated,
so you can use a simple IR LED connected to the TxD pin to send IR
commands.

> What the equipment understand? Both?
I do not understand this question.....

> My whole idea for preventing feedback was to modify original signal in
a
way
> that it will still be understood by receiving equipment (TV, video),
but
> FirM and your software will be able to detect that it has been modify,
so
> you'll not analyze and transmit it anymore.

Feedback from where? When a command is received in the AutoM8it
framework,
then you can decide there what to do, generating an output event... You
will
know at that time the command received and the zone, so you can do what
you
want at that specific input event... Where is the feedback?


> By detecting those
> modifications, you will know that it already passed through FirM and
your
> software and passing it though again would generate feedback.

As you will use IRM plugin for both input and output, the feedback is
excluded, because during a command send, the receiving routine is
stopped,
in the application. No need for other precautions.
If you mean by feedback the possibility to receive your own generated
command and generate an infinite loop, this is not possible with my
application.

> I hope that you understood me. I don't know how to translate that in
bits
> and "carriers". Maybe such thing is not possible to
achieve?

Not only possible, it is .... REAL..:-))

Best regards,
Dan

Cheers,
Nik
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dan [mailto:dtoma@xxxxxxx]
  Sent: 25 October 2002 12:51
  To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update


  Hi Nikola,

  > Regarding feedback, I thought that "brain" (PC,
Homevision) analyzes any
  > signal received from zones and then decides where to transfer
it. That
  way,
  > if I use TV remote in Living room, where TV itself is located,
it
  recognizes
  > the code as TV command and knows that there is no need for
transferring
  that
  > code to other rooms or to living room itself, because TV can
receive
  command
  > from remote controller directly.

  If you will use AutoM8it, then this will be easily possible, based
on
  events.
  Anyhow, the system does not pass IR commands by himself.

  > If you send a TV command from bedroom, it knows that there's no
TV there
  and
  > transmitts command in the living room only, because it knows
that TV is
  >there.
  The same comment.

  > Can Dan put some more inteligence in signal, e.g. by putting
one or two
  > extra bits at the end of the original signal as
"identifiers". "Brain"
  will
  > then know if it receives such signal that it was sent by FirM
so it will
  not
  > transmit it anymore. Such "identifier" bits should
not be recognized by
  any
  > of the equipment as commands.

  If I understand well, you want to use two systems in paralel? The
signal
  generated by the PC is the IR command (without the carrier if using
FirM),
  so if I put some extra bits, then it will not contain a valid IR
command.
  Please be more specific.

  Thank you,
  Dan


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Frank Mc Alinden [mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: 25 October 2002 11:47
    To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update


    Hi Nik
               
The cat5 socket is the highest component so around
    10-15mm....Remember though a cat5 plug goes into
it....

    IR Feedback
    If you use blaster type emitters then when you press the
button on your
    remote pointed at the rx unit the response from the pc
(ir signal) will
  get
    send out of the blaster ir led picked up by the tv or
whatever and also
  the
    zone rx unit and sent back again to the pc and just goes
into an tx rx
    loop...........

    Frank


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Nikola Kasic"
<nikola@xxxxxxx>
    To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
    Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:04 PM
    Subject: RE: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update


    > Hi Frank,
    > Just checked my single gang box.
    > Dimensions are 68x68x25mm
    > So probably it will fit into double gang one.
    > Can you tell me what's the depth of the device?
    >
    > There's no way for me to bring CAT5 close enough to
use stick on
  emitters.
    >
    > What are feedback problems?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nik
    >   -----Original Message-----
    >   From: Frank Mc Alinden
[mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
    >   Sent: 24 October 2002 12:19
    >   To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
    >   Subject: Re: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM
Interfacing Update
    >
    >
    >   Hi Nik
   
>              
I think there would be problems if using ir blaster type
    >   emitting......i have only tested the
system with stick on
    > emitters........Im
    >   sure there would be feedback
problems...Have you located your cat5
    points
    >   above were your equipment is....if so
is there any way you can get a
    thin
    >   type speaker wire down to the equipment
to use for emitters????
    >   > And if it is, will it fit into a
single gang box?
    >   Its been a long time since i seen a UK
plate.....the pcb is around
  75mm
    x
    >   50mm
    >
    >   Frank
    >   ----- Original Message -----
    >   From: "Nikola Kasic"
<nikola@xxxxxxx>
    >   To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
    >   Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:13
PM
    >   Subject: RE: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM
Interfacing Update
    >
    >
    >   > Hoooray!
    >   > Three times...
    >   > But, of course, nothing is
perfect, so to get SWMBO approval i
would
    > like
    >   to
    >   > put transmitters and receivers
high on the wall in a box behind a
    > blanking
    >   > plate. I would then drill a hole
in a plate for IR LEDs.
    >   > Is something like that
possible?
    >   > And if it is, will it fit into a
single gang box?
    >   > And will single CAT5 cable be
enough for both Tx and Rx?
    >   > Electrician put the cables throug
the strategic points last week,
  and
    > he's
    >   > not finished yet. I left enough
length curled and hidden for the
    future
    > IR
    >   > solution, but if I can do it the
way I plan, I might order
    >   > transmitters/receivers and ask
electrician to put boxes in place
and
    >   cables
    >   > through wall to each box.
    >   >
    >   > Dan's idea of controling lights
via IR is interesting.
    >   > But where transmitters must be
placed relative to IR receiver on
  light
    >   > switch? Can they be on the same
wall? That means that IR signal
will
    > have
    >   to
    >   > bounce off the walls. Is that
possible and will they bounce off
any
    wall
    >   and
    >   > furniture, or just some (e.g. wall
carpets).
    >   >
    >   > Cheers
    >   > Nik
    >   >   -----Original
Message-----
    >   >   From: Frank Mc Alinden
[mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
    >   >   Sent: 22 October 2002
20:40
    >   >   To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
    >   >   Subject: Re: [ukha_d]
IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
    >   >
    >   >
    >   >   Thats correct Nik
    >  
>                              
Hopefully when finished (the pc
    interface)
    >   a
    >   > pc
    >   >   user can have a
multizone rx tx /rx using Automat8it software
with
    > Dans
    >   >   plugins and my pc
interface + FirM .
    >   >
    >   >   Frank
    >   >   ----- Original Message
-----
    >   >   From: "Nikola
Kasic" <nikola@xxxxxxx>
    >   >   To:
<ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
    >   >   Sent: Wednesday,
October 23, 2002 1:35 AM
    >   >   Subject: RE: [ukha_d]
IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
    >   >
    >   >
    >   >   > Frank, if I
understand properly, with IRM and FirM you can use
  PC
    >   >   (Autom8it)
    >   >   > as a brain and
control where the commands will be transmitted.
    That
    >   way
    >   > IR
    >   >   > commands will not
be sent through the whole house, but to the
    >   >   pre-programed
    >   >   > zones only. Also,
we don't need a HV for controling FirM, but
  can
    > use
    >   > PC.
    >   >   > Can you tell me
am I right?
    >   >   > Cheers,
    >   >   > Nik
    >   >   >  
-----Original Message-----
    >   >   >   From:
Frank Mc Alinden [mailto:armagh@xxxxxxx]
    >   >   >   Sent:
22 October 2002 12:38
    >   >   >   To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
    >   >   >  
Subject: [ukha_d] IRM +FirM Interfacing Update
    >   >   >
    >   >   >
    >   >   >   HI
all
    >   >  
>           Just a
quick update on were Dan and I are at with
Dans
    IRM
    >   and
    >   >   my
    >   >   > FirM....
    >   >   >
    >   >   >   Well
at the moment Using Dans software the pc can send a tx
  zone
    >   > command
    >   >   > to the FirM
Interface and select a tx zone on firm.......Also
  when
    > an
    >   ir
    >   >   > signal is
received by Dans software it asks the interface for
  zone
    > id
    >   > and
    >   >   > displays it on
the pc........At this point im trying to get my
  ir
    >   sytem
    >   >   > (firm + hv) to
respond to a txed ir signal with little luck
not
    sure
    >   if
    >   >   its
    >   >   > a hardware
problem????
    >   >   >
    >   >   >   More
Soon
    >   >   >
    >   >   >  
Frank
    >   >   >
    >   >   >  
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >   >   >
    >   >   >
    >   >  
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