RE: Clipsal C-Bus2

["Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Tony,

    I am just moving my home installation from X10 to C-Bus
so I'll try and
answer your questions.. Rob Mouser on this list also uses C-Bus in his
new
barn  and is the root cause of all my current expenditure.

    I know what you mean about the Clipsal information and
at a technical
level it is even more sparse. Clipsal do have  a new UK catalogue out
soon
which is a huge improvement but the stock availability in the UK is
still
problematic.

    Overall I am very impressed by C-Bus - there are two
huge benefits for
me - firstly it is reliable - it always does what you tell it to do which
is
certainly not true of X10. Secondly - it's fast so when you press a
switch
it turns on immediately - this I found to be very problematic for
visitors
when they would repeatedly click switches to turn lights on -I realise
both
of these are not so valid using the hardwired momentary contacts to an
LD11.
The feedback on the Clipsal switches is nice and cosmetically they look
good. I feel happy that my lighting will work now when and how I expect
it
to through power cuts etc and the flexibility of switch management is
amazing - you can literally re-program any switch in your house to do
anything. Downsides are the cost and the required C-Bus link running to
each
switch of course plus the fact that the C-Bus protocol is proprietary.
I
have found I can get at what I need though either via the C-Bus UCM
from
Comfort or using Clipsal's C-Gate software.

    One of the other downsides of C-Bus is that you need
some form of
scheduler too if you want to have timed ON and OFF events on C-Bus -
this
means an extra Clock or Touch Screen or perhaps a link to Comfort. Do
you
have Comfort at the moment ? If so this becomes even more useful. Even
with
the two C-Bus options you still can't implement true 'if then else'
type
activities on the C-Bus. I think Clipsal have some software called
C-Schedule to do this but I haven't explored that. They also have their
own
home control software called Homegate which allows nice graphic layouts on
a
PC.

    I am looking at the possibility of xAP gatewaying onto
Clipsal's
network - there might be quite a low cost way of achieving this, or
perhaps
even using HomeVision. If I could just find someone at Clipsal to
progress
this with...... This would give the xAP community instantly available
CE
approved xAP switches, relays and dimmers. (At a cost)

    Further comments inline - anymore Q's please feel free
to ask.

    Cheers Kevin
    (Clipsal Convert)
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Bricknell, Tony [mailto:tony.bricknell@xxxxxxx]
  Sent: 14 October 2002 15:39
  To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  Subject: [ukha_d] Clipsal C-Bus2


  I'm starting to look into X-10 / C-BUS control of dimming lights
/
switching
  sockets and, with the lack of concise C-BUS data on the web, I've
a
question
  or two:

  C-BUS DIN rail dimmers
  - do these only work with the (expensive) C-BUS switches (which
won't fit
a
  standard UK wall box)?
  [[K]] Yes they will only work with C-Bus switches. ( but see
later
comment) .There are some wires into the DIN dimmers but aimed at
providing
an emergency backup all lights ON/OFF feature. The switches are
expensive
because they are intelligent - there is no central controller on C-Bus
so
each module operates independently, overall this makes for a very
robust
solution. Some switches do fit standard UK wall boxes btw. You can control
a
C-Bus dimmer from anything that can send a C-Bus command - so this
includes
IR remotes, Comfort with UCM, Software via C-Gate, Thermostats, Light
sensors, Touch screens etc.
  - How have people here done it?
  [[K]] I think Rob and I are the only two in the UKHA group - Rob's
set-up
is far more finished than mine which is still in the installation
phase.
  - Is there a way of interfacing "standard" Clipsal modular
switches (1 to
5
  switches on a single gang plate) to the DIN rail dimmer?  Or is
it best
done
  Switch --> Comfort/HomeVision --> C-Bus?
  [[K]]
  There is a device called a 4 channel bus coupler. This is a very
interesting product and allows any contact closure to initiate any
C-Bus
command. One of these handles 4 different contacts so you can use one
of
these behind an ordinary existing 4 gang switch to operate C-Bus loads.
Or
indeed a door contact, PIR or whatever. This way you can operate the
C-Bus
dimmers without the expensive C-Bus switches. Works out about the same
cost
as an X10 switch (or just a tad more). - works with any switches
although
momentary are preferred as you can then support dimming
  C-Bus socket switching
  - can't see anything on www.comfort.org.uk  Any other UK
suppliers?  Or
  should I leave that for X-10 (do AD10's support status
reporting)?
  [[K]] This would be done using a C-Bus DIN relay module - wired to
the
outlet. The outlet would become a switched outlet effectively. There is
no
swap out replacement as such for the 13A socket with C-Bus. Also the
standard relays run up to 10A only although this could switch a higher
rated
relay. There may be a 20A unit coming.

  Given the end-cost of kitting out with LD11 & AD10's, I'd rather
go for
  something that is much more reliable and robust, but Clipsal's lack
of
  web-based information is proving a bit of a hindrance :o(
  [[K]] Tell me about it but I think it's worth it ! It just works
which was
something I couldn't say for x10.

  TIA,
  Tony


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