RE: THX and other matters

["Phillip Harris" <phil@xxxxxxx>]

I'm with Tim there Jerome, nicely put posting ... I was studio manager
for a couple of vocal studios in my previous job and your comments on
the wiring in studios are only too clear a memory for me!

I used Bryston amps and PMC monitors in the studios but I've played with Genelec actives in an AV context and they really are quite something!

I agree with your comments about the early work that THX certifcation
did on raising standards back in the ProLogic days but definitely feel
that the THX specs over recent years have been extended to keep up with
technology and new developments - and hence maintain a revenue stream
for Lucasfilm - rather than drive the actual quality forward.

In fact the only thing I would take issue with is the Quad ESLs not
being up to the job of serious AV use ( There's a smiley here in case
anyone is unsure of the presence of sarcasm ":-)" ) - I have a fr= iend
the other side of Winchester who uses Quad ESLs in a roughly 26 x 20ft
room to extremely good effect! Of course he is using some serious
subwoofer enclosures (home made) but otherwise the amplification is
quite modest (Quad power amps, Sony 9000ES processor) - hell, the thing
even runs with a phantom centre! There is *NO* hole in the front
soundstage from the missing front centre and the opening sequence from
T2 (and the usual test sequences) are reproduced with far greater
clarity than I have heard from all but about two or three seriously
expensive systems!

Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy Morris [mailto:timothy.morris@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 09 November 2002 20:47
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] THX and other matters
>
>
> Jerome, thanks - most interesting post I've read on here for weeks. >
> I've just started working in telly (in an executive rather
> than production capacity, and it is fascinating!)
>
> Tim
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerome O'Donohoe [mailto:jerome@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: 09 November 2002 20:36
> > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] THX and other matters
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, November 9, 2002, at 06:43  pm, Timothy Morris = wrote:
> >
> > >  none of the (six) power amps have a THX badge on them = nor do the
> > > speakers, nor does the DVD player or screen. I HAVE to
> have a hybrid
> > > system, and I wouldn't buy THX speakers (because they do > sound pants
> > > with music). I wouldn't out of choice buy anything else
> with a THX
> > > badge on it per-se (the Meridian was a different matter when= I
> > > bought it, because anything comparable had a THX badge on it= ),
> > > purely because
> it
> > > adds several hundred quid to the price, and I trust my
> own ears more
> > > than a set of arbitrary specs!
> > >
> > I wonder if I might chip in here, just to offer another
> view.  I don't
> > have any high-end or THX approved HC kit at home, but my
> job is as a
> > dubbing mixer (a re-recording mixer on US films) , which makes me=
> > responsible for the soundtracks that go to the flicks and
> end up on TV
> > & DVDs. My lowly position in a UK sound house means you
> won't see my
> > name on any credit rolls in your DVD collection (save for somethi= ng
> i'm
> > pretty sure you won't have or want to have, though if
> you've seen the
> > Mummy Returns, Rugrats in Paris or Jimmy Neutron in a
> language other
> > than english, you'll have heard my work, such as it is on foreign=
> > versions :-) ).  What I can comment on is the kit and the na= ture of
> > listening rooms, as we have 2 dubbing theatres kitted out with > > THX-grade amps & speakers and jolly nice AMS Neve mixers
> feeding them,
> > and another two smaller rooms with the same mixers but non-thx > > monitoring.
> >
> > I can guarantee that any of you would prefer the sound of
> the non-thx
> > Genelec speakers in the smaller rooms over the THX approved (for =
> > cinemas, the most stringent spec) JBL systems in the bigger
> theatres,
> > which would maybe be about the same size as a seriously well off =
> > uber-celeb might have for his home cinema.  Genelec could we= ll have
> > sought, and got, THX-approval for their speakers but the
> $15,000 cost
> > of approval per model gives them pause for thought, as
> would the cost
> > of additional THX approval on the mixing room itself for the mixi= ng
> > house.  For sure the specs in the THX approval are high, but= many
> > products meet & exceed them and sell without the expense of t= he THX
> > badge.  Cinema-derived specs apply to dispersion & throw=
> > characteristics that are inappropriate for home use, and
> i'm sure most
> > list members consider their HC setup to be better than their loca= l
> > cinema, and given that some of your kit will have cost just as mu= ch,
> if
> > you've a favourable acoustic environment, they almost certainly d= o.
> > THX did a good thing in dragging the appalling standards of
> cinemas in
> > the 80s up from the depths, but Dolby have done as much if not lo= ts
> > more since then for the bulk of cinemas.  THX approval has b= een
> dropped
> > as an unnecessary expense by a lot of US cinema chains as
> they are now
> > as good as the customers demand, and only a miniscule
> portion of their
> > customers will seek THX approval .
> >
> > To get back to the point, most good sized (yes, size matters) mus= ic
> > systems should provide fabulous cinema sound reproduction  <= BR> > (Quad ESLs
> > and valve amps excepted here!). A THX badge will not mean it soun= ds
> any
> > better, scientifically speaking.  As long as your
> monitoring can cope
> > with the dynamic range at a low S/N ratio, you're getting good > results.
> > Any further processing on a 5.1 signal other than delay for
> the rear
> > speakers and screen HF rolloff compensation for the front is
> completely
> > unnecessary (it may occur to some that the screen HF compensation=
> > usually applies to the centre speaker, when in any dolby-approved=
> > cinema or mixing stage, all three (or five, in SDDS rarities) fro= nt
> > speakers are behind the screen).
> >
> > I suppose i'm trying to say don't get hung up on approval.  =
> High end
> > music systems are incredibly different from decent HC, and
> require a
> > higher standard in the production chain, which you need to
> carry on to
> > some degree in the home if you want the ultimate reproduction.&nb= sp; By
> this
> > I do NOT mean cabling, by the way.  The listening room is > 1000% more
> > important than the electrical connections.  Most audiophiles= would
> have
> > a heart attack if they saw how recording studios & mixing > facilities
> > are wired - analogue & digital audio passes through telephone= grade
> > single-core wiring, punched into krone frames that will be very <= BR> > > familiar to those of you with telecoms backgrounds.  The Dol= by
> > equipment used for monitoring in cinema mixing rooms & theatr= es
> > themselves is connected, *unbalanced*, to solder tags with bog > standard
> > screened copper. And yet we still produce CDs & film mixes th= at
> > consumers are tricked into reproducing with silver speaker
> cable and
> > =A3100 interconnects, which I think is a scandal.  Money wou= ld be way
> > better spent on soundproofing & tuning the listening environm= ent,
> which
> > is where we spend it in the construction of mixing facilities. > >
> > Not sure if that helped anyone, but I felt like a bit of a
> rant about
> > how consumers (and I am one...and I was a perpetrator, having wor= ked
> in
> > a hifi shop many years ago flogging interconnects & speaker c= able,
> with
> > their enormous margins compared to the kit) get fleeced.  Wh= y not
> throw
> > up a few layers of plasterboard, float the floor and bolt down > anything
> > that'll vibrate to improve your listening rather than line
> the pockets
> > of the cable con-artists?!
> >
> > If you like it, it's in all likelihood probably pretty good.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jerome.
> >
> >
> > http://www.automatedho= me.co.uk
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