RE: Automation in the Bathroom ?

["Mark Harrison" <Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx>]

Nikola,

The missing piece is the "smell of poo". 

This comes, not from water content, but from sulfur- and nitrogen-rich
organic compounds produced by bacterial action. This is also why
vegeterians have less smelly poo - they aren't eating sulfide-rich meat
:-)

While it's possible to detect "smell" using sensors, it's a lot
more
complex / expensive than a simple humidity detector.

In rooms which JUST have a shower/bath with no loo, then a humidity
detector will be fine.

Regards,

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: 27 December 2002 11:02
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?


Mark, what's the purpose of extractor fan? Is it only to extract
humidity from the bathroom? If that's the case, what's wrong with these
fans with humidity sensor? They are not connected to central
controller,
so no logging etc., but it's quick and simple and relatively cheap
solution. And it's probably more reliable then having sensors in toilet
and shower and applying all that logic (if you flush the toilet etc.) I
thought that the only criteria for starting and stopping the fan should
be level of humidity in the air and humidity sensor provides that info.
Or I'm missing something here? Cheers, Nik

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 27 December 2002 10:21
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?


The 20 minute timing is specified in the UK Building Regulations.

It applies to any bathroom/toilet where there is not a window (ie
typically bathrooms in the middle of the building not adjacent to an
external wall.)

In this case, the fan must run all the time that the light is on, and
for an additional 20 minutes afterwards.


It has long been suggested, in HA circles that this "rough and
ready"
figure is inappropriate. Probably the best suggestion for meaningful
automation came from Phil Harris a year or so ago.

His suggestion was that, with good occupancy detection, and a decent
controller, it would be worth timing how long the person had been in
the
WC, and using THAT to determine how long the fan should run for. As we
are well aware, a "quick slash" typically requires a lot less
extraction
(!) than a "good dump".

If you added humidity detection to that, to take care of the shared
bath/shower/WC room, then all in all, a good formula could be arrived
at.

The other thing I'd add would be a "was the loo actually
flushed"
detector. I, for one, will visit the en-suite last thing at night to
clean my teeth, without using the other facilities. In this case,
there's no need for any fan running.

I realise that this is drifting a long way from the original
question...
However, I think it's all good HA stuff :-)

Regards,

Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: 27 December 2002 10:02
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?


My extractor fan works on timer, when you turn on the light it turns
itself on. When you turn light off it still works for next 15-20 min
and
turns itself off. There are two problems with that:
- it's annoying when it turns itself on and works for 20 min during the
night, when you only go to take a leak, no showering takes place.
- sometimes 20 min is enough to get rid of humidity, sometimes it's
not.

Apparently, there are some extractor fans which have humidity sensor,
and they turn itself on when humidity is above certain trashold.
Haven't
seen them, but the guy in electric shop told me about them and they
cost
about ?100. Probably that's all of automation that's needed there. Of
course, "proper" solution should be to have humidity sensor
(weather
station) and controller (autom8it) and control the process through
that.

Cheers,
Nik
  -----Original Message-----
  From: geraintuk <geraintwilliams_uk@xxxxxxx>
[mailto:geraintwilliams_uk@xxxxxxx]
  Sent: 26 December 2002 02:51
  To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  Subject: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?


  Guys, looking for some advice here.

  I'm cabling now for the master bedroom and en-suite.

  I need to put in new light circuits and extractor fans.
  What i'm having problems getting my head around is the best way
to
  acheive the following :

  I would like (if even possible due to humidity etc) to have a
  circuit which would allow me to use an IP65 light above the
en-suite
  shower to turn on when someone gets in the shower cubicle. I
also
  want the same circuit to turn on the extraction fan unit.

  It would be nice if I could also enable local control of just
the
  fan circuit (and I don't think anymore detail is required as to
why)

  It would also be nice if this could be done on a timer, so that
when
  finished in shower, extractor (and light if it has to be) stay
on
  for a few mins.

  I was thinking of maybe a x10 Hawkeye unit, but a) not the
nicest
  thing in the world to look at, B) not sure how it would handle
  humidity.

  I'm not even sure if this could be done, I don't run homevision
etc,
  just x10.

  Any pointers would be appreciated.

  Regards
  Geraint.


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