RE: Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff

["Amar Nagi" <amar@xxxxxxx>]

I agree Nickola. This problem stems somewhere else.
In the time of the internet boom alot of companies and
individuals sprouted up soley to buy internet domain 
names they knew at some point would bring them some reward.
This is what led to the high profile cases where companies 
took these ppl to court and got their names from these companies.

Times are have changed and these bully tatics
of the lawyers show they have no case otherwise
they would have gone straight to the courts
when their initial offer was refused.

Personally i would tell them to spin. But if the case
is (as is here), the person in question cannot not be fussed about
the name then sell it, make them pay through the teeth for the
name.

My personal opinion of course


      -----Original Message----- 
      From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]

      Sent: Fri 09/08/2002 11:43 
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
      Cc: 
      Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names
LEGAL Stuff
      
      
      I know all that, but there are other similar
ways, he doesn't have to repeat my words :-).
      The point is that he might genuinly plan to
use that domain and developing web site and project. If he didn't put
anything on the web yet, doesn't need that he didn't start some work and
invested some money and time with that name in mind.
      I have some name for more than 2 years and
didn't start using it yet. I still have the same idea, just didn't have
time to put averything together. I would really be pissed off if someone
comes and tells me that I didn't use it for 2 years and they want to buy it
for £50.
      If they are so smart, when they started
their business, why they didn't buy that .com domain or contacted him
immediately if he already had it registered. Why they waited year and a
half.
      I don't think that they have a strong case,
even if his domain name is argos.com or similar.
      Just my opinion.
      Cheers,
      Nik

            -----Original
Message-----
            From: BUTLER,
Tony, FM [mailto:roaming@xxxxxxx]
            Sent: 09
August 2002 11:13
            To:
'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
            Subject: RE:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            
            
            ...and of
course all these ideas have been discussed in a forum accessible
            to the
general public, so it would be easy for someone to print out all
            these
messages and say "Look your honour, he's only saying he was going
to
            start up a
business because some guy suggested it on the internet" or
"Look
            your honour,
he even said on this forum that he wasn't that bothered about
            the
name".
            
            Tell em a
grand and settle on 500 if you can get it......
            
            Tony
            
            >
-----Original Message-----
            > From:
Ian Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
            > Sent: 09
August 2002 10:53
            > To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            > Subject:
RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > 
            > 
            > *except*
on precedent of previous domain resolutions you 
            > *would*
lose, and
            > probably
end up liable for their costs in the process too!!
            > 
            > I am not
a lawyer, but if this were me, I would just not take 
            > the
risk.
            > 
            > even if
it was an ubercool domain name. ;)
            > 
            >
Ian.
            > 
            >
-----Original Message-----
            > From:
Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]
            > Sent: 09
August 2002 10:43
            > To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            > Subject:
RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > 
            > 
            > I would
say that I just plan to start business and have web site in
            >
development stage with name in question, so redesigning it 
            > would
cost me a
            > money,
and I would ask for £1,000-£2,000 at least. So you can 
            > buy
something
            > for that
money, at least.
            > £100 is
really nothing, if they really want that name. 
            >
Solicitor probably
            > charges
them £500 a day.
            >
Cheers,
            > Nik
            >
-----Original Message-----
            > From:
Ian Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
            > Sent: 09
August 2002 10:32
            > To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            > Subject:
RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > 
            > 
            > Having
followed a lot of the stories on the Register et al, 
            > it
sounds very
            > much
like you would get spanked into the floor Martin :(
            > 
            > Remember
.com is *not* a US domain: it's a *global* domain.
            > It's
just the US mindset that makes it common for US only 
            >
companies to use
            >
exclusively .com
            > 
            > There is
a specific .us heirarchy, just as there is a .uk, 
            > and post
Sept 11,
            > this
seems to be really taking off.
            > 
            > if you
are registered after them, they are trading via the 
            > .co.uk
and you
            > have not
made use of the .com in a non-infringing way, then 
            > if it
went to
            > domain
arbitration, you *WOULD* lose.
            > 
            >
personally, I would take money and run.
            > 
            >
Ian.
            > 
            >
-----Original Message-----
            > From:
Martin [mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]
            > Sent: 08
August 2002 21:53
            > To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            > Subject:
RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > 
            > 
            > OK,
Thanks Mark
            > 
            > Sounds
like the course of action would be to transfer the 
            > domain
to save
            > any of
us getting in the sh_t.
            > 
            > The
passing off bit might be iffy, the names were redirected initially
            > but are
not now. So would they have a case based on this ?
            > 
            > There
are so many if's ,my names were registered after theirs, maybe a
            > case for
passing off ?,  they are dot.com's - a US name after all, ,
            > they do
not hold the trademark, and heck so what if I'm not 
            > going to
use
            > the
names just yet.
            > 
            > If I
transferred the names now would they have a case at all ?
            > 
            > 
            > hmmm , I
may just have to take the dosh and buy a useful HA gadget.
            >
Suggestions ?
            > 
            >
Regards
            >
Martin
            > 
            > 
            > 
            > 
            > 
            >
-----Original Message-----
            > From:
mark_harrison_uk1 [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
            > Sent: 08
August 2002 20:43
            > To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            > Subject:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > 
            > 
            > 
            > Bear in
mind that I am NOT a lawyer, and that I am not qualified to
            > give
legal advice. However, I am a senior manager with overall
            >
responsibility for Domain Name registrations for a FTSE 100 company
            > with
significant web presences Europe-wide. The following, however,
            > is my
personal opinion, not that of my employer.
            > 
            > Firstly,
don't get hung up on the fact they use solicitors to do
            > this -
several solicitors these days have Intellectual Property
            >
practices that include Domain Name protection along with Trademark
            >
protection et al. The company may simply (as we do) simply have an
            >
outsourcing contract with this firm to do this - the fact they are
            >
solicitors is neither here nor there - the fact they are IP
            >
Consultants is...
            > 
            >
Personally, I think that £100 + transfer costs is fair, and my advice
            > would be
to take it. If the company is a large, household name, then
            > they
might go to £500 + transfer costs, but are very unlikely to go
            > any
higher.
            > 
            > I feel
that, actually, the company has acted reasonably in making you
            > the
initial offer. The fact that they have threated legal action has
            > happened
only AFTER you have refused to consider this. However, the
            > fact
that they have increased their offer suggests that they don't
            > want to
make a big deal out of this (but do wish to protect their IP.)
            > 
            > As I see
it as a laymam, there are a number of issues here. The key
            > issue is
that the UK legal system now very much frowns upon
            >
Cybersquatting - the deliberate registration of someone elses trading
            > name
with no intent to do anything other than sell on the domain name.
            > 
            > However,
work through the following:
            > 
            > 1: When
did you register the domain names? If you did so BEFORE they
            > launched
their business, then you could claim that your intention was
            > to
launch a service using that name. However, if you did so AFTER
            > they
launced their business, then they could (potentially
            >
succesfully - this has happened) argue that you only registered the
            > name as
a cybersquat.
            > 
            > 2: If
you have launched any service on the names that might cause
            >
confusion, then they would have a case under UK law to proceed
            > against
you for "passing off". If, however, there is nothing but a
            > holding
page, then you are unlikely to be deemed to have any
            >
liability in respect of passing off.
            > 
            > 3: The
fact that the names are .coms rather than .co.uks raises the
            > question
of whether the UK courts would have any jurisdiction. You
            > could
argue that .com is, according the the standard, intended for
            > use by
US Companies, and that the ONLY basis for challenging a
            >
registration is that a company has registered a FEDERAL (not State)
            >
trademark as the contested name, and that US courts would have
            >
jurisdiction.
            > 
            > 4: What
do you intend doing with the domains? If you haven't used
            > them for
the last 18 months, and demonstrably had no intention of
            > doing so
AND refused a good faith offer, then there IS a chance that
            > the
courts could find in their favour, and you'd be stuffed. The fact
            > you
posted HERE that you'd never used the domains, and "not bothered
            > about
the names" might be used in evidence to demonstrate that you
            > had NOT
registered them to set up your own service with that name.
            > 
            > 5: Do
THEY have the name registered as a UK trademark? If not, then I
            > don't
think they have a leg to stand on unless you're passing off
            > (see
above.)
            > 
            >
Regards,
            > 
            >
Mark
            > 
            > 
            > --- In
ukha_d@y..., "Alex Monaghan" <alex@m...> wrote:
            > > I
would guess that if you've paid your NIC fees and there's no
            >
trademark
            > >
infringement, the you can do what you like with your domains.
            >
>
            > > If
the only justification for legal action is that you've not used
            >
them
            > >
AND... you do really want the domains, then get a cheapo hosting
            > account
and
            > >
attach the names to it, put up a simple index.html and their
            > argument
is
            > >
blown out of the water :-) If you don't have one in mind, look back
            >
through
            > > the
archives for a post from Chris Bond with a subject of "web
            >
hosting
            > >
special offer" (or something similar), I transferred my domain on
            > this
offer
            > >
with no problems.
            >
>
            > >
> -----Original Message-----
            > >
> From: Martin [mailto:ukha@o...]
            > >
> Sent: 08 August 2002 17:24
            > >
> To: ukha_d@y...
            > >
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            > >
>
            > >
>
            > >
> Hi all
            > >
>
            > >
> I'm hoping someone can help me out here, I have registered some
            >
domain
            > >
> names (about 18 months ago, and they are as yet unused). They are
            > dot
            > >
> com's.
            > >
> A company has approached me who own the dot co.uk with the same
            >
name.
            > >
> They initially offered a small sum (£50 + transfers costs) via
            >
their
            > >
> solicitor, I said not interested. Now they are saying that I have
            > not
            > >
> used the name and have no right too use it and their final offer
            > is
£100
            > >
> + transfer or they will take legal action !!!
            > >
>
            > >
> Heeelllp, should I say stick up your ..... or would it mean a
            >
legal
            > >
> challenge costing me loads which I may or may not win.
            > >
> At the end of the day I'm not that bothered about the name, is it
            >
best
            > >
> to take what they've offered and just leave it at that ?
            > >
>
            > >
> Or perhaps I'll transfer the name for someone else to use.....
            > >
>
            > >
> Cheers
            > >
> Martin.
            > >
>
            > >
>
            > >
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