Re: Linux Recommendations

[Andy Laurence <andy@xxxxxxx>]

> > to resort to the commandline nowadays. But most linux users
> > still use it
> > from time to time, because it can be more efficient when you
> > know what to do
>
> Indeed.  And I know the *nix philosophy tends to be to write
small
> efficient routines that can be strung together to perform some
useful
> function - eg ps -ewf  grep <username>  to find my active
processes is
> all very well, but I need to know about the ps command, piping, and
grep
> in order to do this. Ctrl-Alt-Del & Task Manager does the same for
me on
> win nt/2k.

For me, <ctrl>+<esc> works just the same.

> Similarly, unzipping a file (usually a tar.gzip in *nix) involved
> gzip -d <filename.tar.gz
> and then
> cpio -H tar -i < filename.tar
>
> Again, less intuitive than using winzip or zip folders etc.

right click > applications > file tools > zip

> Ah, that is where we differ.  I believe something should be
pretty
> intuitive and easy to use out of the box.

Agreed.  Mind you, I rarely read the manuals, and cope just fine with
Mandrake.

> > that need to be compiled from source, even this is fairly
standard now
> > (./configure; make; make install, or variations on this
> > theme), but if you
>
> Bruno - you have just said this is fairly standard and then gone
on
> immediately to list 3 different ways of doing it and stated 'or
> variations on this theme'!  That is a contradiction in terms if I
ever
> saw one :-)

Actually, you do "./configure", then "make", then
"make install".

> > have problems, ask yourself how much easier it would be to
> > compile programs from source on Windows.
>
> If it's a .Net program and I have Visual Studio installed then
it's
> File, Open, Project, <choose project name> then Build, Build
solution -
> it's that simple :-)

About the same then ;-)

> I have to wonder what is the point in moving to a new environment
that
> looks just like your old one but can't run your old apps (WiNE etc
aside
> - has it got Word working yet or are we still on wordpad working 50%
of
> the time?).

Reliability? Flexibility?

> > little like Windows as you want. And if you want something
completely
> > different, there are dozens of other window managers you can
> > try. At least
>
> Yeah.  I liked OpenLook (it was that or ....twm? I think when I
tried
> *nix all those years ago) but I think it's gone now.
> I've seen other more recent ones running but they didn't seem so nice
-
> either so like windoze it's unbelievable or they are trying to so
NOT
> look like windoze yet provide the equivalent of a start bar etc
that
> it's painful!.

There's a whole host of them, and they're infinitely flexible.  You
can 
make them as much like or unlike Windows as you like.  Myself, I have
it 
unlike Windows, so I remember I'm using Linux!

> > That's what you think now, but eventually you will see the
light.
>
> That's what all cult members say once they've been subsumed.
> Oh, and u r Borg too. :->

IMO, Linux is a crap desktop OS.  It is a great server OS
though.  Perhaps 
it'll get better in time.

> > Actually, a lot of the free server stuff works _better_ than
> > the commercial
> > stuff (classic examples being Apache and Samba). :-)
>
> Maybe.  Still a b*tch to install.

Really?  I did right click > run > rpmdrake > search >
apache > tick box > 
install for apache, and the Mandrake install was easier, and quicker than
Windows (any version).

> The main problem it seems to me with *nix stuff is that nobody seems
to
> have heard of a GUI when it comes to configuring/running apps.

rpmdrake, linuxconf, menudrake, userdrake, harddrake,.....

> > > but I don't think I could _ever_ see it as a
> > > desktop OS.
> >
> > I would have agreed with you until quite recently. But the
>
> [...]
>
> > Excel, even as recently as that. So I decided to avoid the
> > rebooting route
> > by running Windows under linux, using Netraverse Win4Lin. I made
a bad
>
> You still need to run windows though so again, as a desktop OS, what
is
> the point of running Linux just so you can run windows on it?

Windows running on Linux is quicker than running Windows!  Don't ask
me 
how - I've never done it, but people have.

> > it does in its own partition. And when it crashes (as it
> > inevitably does),
> > or needs rebooting for one of the myriad reasons that Windows
> > seems to find
> > to require this action, the reboot is an order or magnitude
quicker on
>
> It only needs this IME if you change hardware or sometimes when
you
> install other software.
> Maybe it is less stable under win4lin?

IME, your average user can make a Windows install very unstable, very 
quickly.  I've yet to make this Mandrake install unstable, and it gets
a 
lot of use.  On the other hand, I find Windows 99% stable because I
know 
how not to feck it up!

> Indeed.  I can just about handle using joe on the TiVo :-)
> I know emacs is yet another cult product, and ppl use it for word
> processing, programming etc, but I don't see the attraction of
seeing
> [b]bold[/b] or whatever in a document vs seeing the text actually
in
> bold in a GUI.

Agreed, but there are tools out there which will change what you see. 
Kmail (which I'm using now) changes to bold if you *star* a word.

Andy
-- 
Building a community network for Bristol
http://consume.andylaurence.co.uk
- updated 15/07
4x4 in town - bog brush for your teeth
NB: Alternate E-Mail - andylaurence at yahoo dot co dot uk

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