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Re: X-10 on eBay and our prices.


  • To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  • Subject: Re: X-10 on eBay and our prices.
  • From: "Mark Hetherington" <mark.egroups@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 30 Jun 20ec 22:42:10 -0000
  • Delivered-to: rich@xxxxxxx
  • Delivered-to: mailing list ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  • Mailing-list: list ukha_d@xxxxxxx; contact ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
  • Reply-to: ukha_d@xxxxxxx

--- In ukha_d@y..., "steve" <steve@b...> wrote:
>   Looks like catch 22 then.=20
>=20
>   It certainly is the reason i have never puchased a uk x10 module.=20
Yet i have approx 30 X10 units here.

Most electronics products are more expensive in the UK and much of=20
Europe when compared with the US. Although the price differential=20
with X10 kit may seem greater it is a combination of simple economics=20
due to the smaller market, higher production cost from the more=20
stringent safety laws plus the variety of kit required. If the US=20
produced modules for each individual state then I am sure the prices=20
would be higher. Production costs in 000s will be much higher than=20
production costs in 0000s +. UK warranties also tend to be far=20
superior to US ones with many US products having a very limited 90=20
day warranty (which is often voided when exported) compared to our=20
pretty standard 12 months+.

Look at the original price of VCRs compared with today. DVD players=20
also went through this same process. Personally I imported much of my=20
AV gear from the US rather than wait for the price to come down but=20
having worked with US kit for various things as part of my job I had=20
no concerns about doing so. A number of people are unwilling to buy=20
something which is not instantly "plug and play" even if the
only=20
thing required is a simple power converter so "opting out" of
UK=20
prices is not an option for all.=20

Personally I do not have the desire and am not sure of my ability to=20
modify US modules for use here so have paid the premium for that.=20
Fortunately I paid the lower price for the modules I have (although=20
had I waited I would have saved quite a bit more) so the expense was=20
not as bad as if I had automated a year or so ago.

It is still possible to save money in this country. When buying my=20
DIN modules, I saved =A3150-20e by buying from Let's Automate rather=20
than Keene Electronics down the road. Still not US prices but it=20
worked "out of the box" and I had "local" support had I
required it.=20

It is unfortunate that the HA/X10 market here is not big enough to=20
begin to affect prices but high prices does not preclude the=20
possibility or the market growing, it may just slow it down some. We=20
are used to paying higher prices for almost anything and there are a=20
number of reasons behind this.=20

IMO, the problem in the UK with HA/X10 is not so much the current=20
price of kit but more the lack of knowledge and marketing which=20
hopefully Orange and other are about to change. BBC and Discovery=20
programs showing an automated house stating how it cost as much/more=20
to install the automation as to build gives people the idea that HA=20
is expensive. Compared to what people have seen/heard, X10 is=20
relatively cheap. Orange may get the HA message out a little more to=20
people who might research it and start buying kit.=20

>   Having briefly worked in uk retail i seriously doubt homebase=20
have made any loss on the x10 kit overall.

I have also worked in UK retail and I can guess where you are coming=20
from but your conclusion is inaccurate. The notion of loss leader=20
which is very common in UK retail instantly discounts your=20
conclusion.=20

UK retail often ends up in a situation where they end up selling at a=20
loss especially in technology markets. Often, clearing the stock=20
below cost is cheaper long term than storing and accounting for it=20
indefinitely while it takes up valuable space that could be used for=20
more saleable and profitable items. There is also the problem when=20
prices do fall that old stock has a higher original cost than the=20
current retail value.=20

With the Homebase X10 stuff I would suspect they made little if any=20
profit during their last price reduction but are definitely well=20
below cost this time around. Looking at alternative providers of kit=20
in Europe, they were vastly overpriced but there are worse e.g. PC=20
World and M*****s.=20

Let us take the original HB price for a module of IIRC =A329.99. If=20
they are still making a profit at =A37.49 then that would represent a=20
profit margin of greater than 400%. Homebase may be expensive for=20
some items but 400% profit margins would have hit the media long=20
ago. :)

The current price was derived following their simple clearance=20
pricing which is reduce by 50%, sell what they can, anything left=20
after x months reduce by 50% until sell out.=20

Module was =A329.99, reduced to =A314.99 for x months, reduced to =A37.49.=
=20

I imagine much of the US X10 stuff is sold around cost or at minimal=20
profit to encourage market penetration and the purchases of more=20
profitable items. Look how often X10.com give stuff away for nothing=20
or do 10 modules for a dollar (exaggeration) promos. Their market=20
size allows them to have these loss leaders.=20

I remember, must be what 20 years or so ago, the "Red Box". X10
based=20
red boxes (hence the highly original nam() that were controlled from=20
a ZX Spectrum. IIRC it was around =A3200+ for the controller and=20
modules were around =A3100+ each!=20

A number of simple timers are of a similar price to X10 modules and=20
people buy them. If X10 and other HA products had more marketing then=20
I am sure timers could easily be replaced.=20

Walk into any HomeBase or PC World and ask about Home Automation. If=20
it had not been for our recent raiding of the stores I am sure most=20
if not all the staff would have sent you elsewhere when you asked=20
about HA or X10. So far every piece of kit I have bought I have had=20
to describe in detail to the staff and then while I am buying it they=20
ask what it is for etc. Once I expalin they take a closer interest=20
and actually look at it as a potential purchase!=20

I think the best story about that was when buying my first bits from=20
HomeBase. I ask the security guy where the "Special Order" desk
is=20
while holding a bunch of their little cards. He takes me over and on=20
the way says "you have lots of alarm stuff there" (having seen
where=20
I was picking up the cards from. I explain it is not alarm stuff but=20
HA stuff. He seems interested and wanders off. While the lady is=20
searching for dusty X10 boxes in the storeroom, he comes back to ask=20
me how it works, how hard to fit etc! Anyway, the lady returns from=20
the storeroom along with a number of boxes which are very dusty. As I=20
am going to pay she starts to read one of them and so I go through=20
the whole chat with her as well. Her till isn't working properly so I=20
end up going to the main checkout to pay. At the checkout, the=20
checkout girl picks up the remote kit, scans it, sees the picture of=20
a kettle and lamps etc on the front and asks if it is a timer. I=20
explain how it is a remote control etc. Another customer (lady)=20
behind me in the queue starts to listen and her and the checkout girl=20
start to have a joke about me being so lazy I want to turn lights on=20
with a remote. I compare it to the TV remote which kind of made them=20
think a little more along the lines I was. Then the lady customer=20
exclaims "I can't really call you lazy, I am buying a touch
lamp!".=20
She then asks where I got the stuff and leaving her lamp on the=20
cashdesk nips around to have a look at the X10 stuff while the=20
checkout girl said she would take a look during her break.=20

So during a lunch hour trip to try and snap up bargains I end up=20
pretty much selling the stuff to four other people in the shop! Some=20
things I learned during this time were that people (including the=20
staff selling the stuff) did not know about it, or if they knew a=20
little assumed it to be expensive and difficult to fit.=20

People understand a timer. They understand a remote control. They=20
understand the simple forms of HA and ease of use. A few decently=20
priced promotions in places such as HomeBase (rather than hiding X10=20
in security equipment billboards that nobody but a DIY alarm fitter=20
is going to take notice of) in appropriate sections such as in with=20
the lighting, timers and AV sections would have gone a long way to=20
both promoting and selling X10. We might not have got the bargains we=20
have at HomeBase over the last few months but ultimately there might=20
be more people interested in it and the market could grow and better=20
units be produced and the price come down.=20




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